Full electronics upgrade - B&G, Raymarine or Garmin?

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Sorry to pop the bubble but ignore the B&G advice. I purchased a complete new B&G end:end system (plotter, vhf, radar, autopilot, AIS, all new sensors etc etc) replacing ray marine. NO , it super difficult to get ahold of B&G/Navico/Simrad support. Have spent HOURS on phone queue trying to get in. Filed online support tickets are typically ignored other than the auto response - don't bother. Navico has gutted their support department. I had to go through a dealer to get support and even they (West Marine) had to wait 2 hrs on their line and then it wasn't followed up on. There seems to be ONE guy left in the department and he, as another poster has offered, is overwhelmed and cherry picks what/whether to respond. B&G/Navico/Simrad for US at least is an utterly non-viable system due to nonexistent support.

[Snore]

A few thoughts-

1- Do NOT buy a touch-only system. Unless installed on really big yachts with enclosed helms, they are a PITA. Many react poorly to getting wet, and when waves are rolling, using them is like a DUI test. To maximize screen size, consider a touch system, with a separate key pad.


2-The best B&G support I got was through their FaceBook group. There are some true power users with great knowledge. While many eschew FB, in the 21st century it is one of the ways firms deliver support. For those who disdain FB, suggest setting up a ghost account using a unique, burner email. This will allow you to get the benefits of FB while remaining anonymous.

[sv_pelagia]

All the above makes me really want to avoid Navico(B&G, etc), Garmin & Raymarine!



Surprised this thread does not include Furuno

[kaz911]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

All the above makes me really want to avoid Navico(B&G, etc), Garmin & Raymarine!



Surprised this thread does not include Furuno

For sailboats, Furuno market share is low. But their support is supposed to be great. But I have not tried them.

[neflier]

Raymarine tech support is outstanding. I've had some real "out of the box" questions and they always provide accurate and timely answers. If the person who picks up the call doesn't have the answer they will transfer you to the person that does. The longest I've had to wait was a 2 hour call back in the middle of summer to get to the right person.

[JustMurph]

IMO, you're picking the best of the worst.
The user interfaces, hardware specifications and general user experience with all manufacturers of marine instruments is poor at best. We really should expect better for the money we have to pay.

I went with all B&G about 2 years ago and I still think that was the right choice. I still think that the user experience with most of it is woefully s***.

The UI on the Zeus 3S is confusing and completely unintuitive.
The screen resolution and refresh rate/processor power is a joke.
The UI and configuration of the H5k pilot is sh*te. Being a race boat pilot is not a valid excuse.

I really like the Halo 20+ radar.
I like the triton 2 displays.


Edit: Oh yes, and ditto everyone else on navico support. I have some very annoying issues with my H5k system that they've never been able to sort out.

[kaz911]

I'm waiting until after the Feb boat show to finally select, but so far I'm still tilted towards Raymarine despite not being a fan since the early touch models - and absolutely not an Android fan.

Both B&G and Garmin are overdue releasing new 7-16" plotters. As I said Zeus 3S was a minor update to Zeus 3. Zeus 3 is from 2016, 3S from 2020, Garmin xx3 series from Nov 2020.

[TBW]

Furuno

[OS2Dude]

We have a mixed family of instruments. B&G chart plotters, B&G VHF (Base & wireless handhelds), Garmin MFDs (GMI-10/GMI-20), Nexus (via Garmin) Wind Transducer and a FUSION Stereo. I suggest getting the device that performs the specific function the best, regardless of who the manufacturer is.

(When NMEA was very new, companies tried to force the standards to follow their product so had proprietary sentences and there was a lot of incompatibility. Now that it is mature, most of those issues have gone away.)

As stated, B&G was designed for sailors so has the best sailing specific functionality. I really like the flexibility of the GARMIN GMI-xx MFDs, they can be configured to show whatever you want however you want. The VHF uses NMEA2000 and besides broadcasting over VHF, the handhelds can talk to each other (and the base) without broadcasting over a VHF channel, great when someone is at the bow needing to talk to the person at the helm.

The FUSION is NMEA enabled so I can control the stereo from any chart plotter.

I have never had an issue with connectivity with NMEA2000. (Even a Raspberry PI with a CAN HAT.)

[Alita49DS]

What a drepressing thread. Because most of it is spot on!

* The manufacturers have done their best to destroy the idea of mixing and matching using standard Ethernet NMEA2000. All in their interests, and ignoring the need for consumers to "plug and play". You cannot even plug, let alone play
* Most of the kit is less powerfull or electronically advanced than the cheapest mobile phone. Little effort is made to other than cosmetically upgrade.
* The software is poorly designed. Without the sand boxing that personal computers have had for years. One fault and generally the whole system or unit collapses.
* The instructions can be a nightmare to follow.

Which leads me to the conclusion that whatever you buy is going to be more or less suboptimal. With not a lot between the brands, other than sofware and support. In respect of which:
* It must make sense to buy a system that can use more than one chart system.
* Mixing and matching is an act of self harm, unless you are an electronics engineer.
* In my experience, in Europe - and I have a bequethed mix of all three brands - Raymarine is streets ahead on the phone/email/web support side.
* Raymarine has more local independent companies and support technicians.

So, my answer to your question is that, unless you are the sort of person who would elect to build their own PC and enjoys endless hours of frustration looking at a black screen, go fo the across the board system that will give you the least grief, and the best support should you encounter any.

[guitarrich]

I’ve worked in the industry for 30 years - ashore for some years raising a family, during which time I worked as a QA tech and test boat driver for Raymarine. I’m back out there now, doing deliveries and private boat work.

Unsurprisingly perhaps, I prefer Raymarine. I’ve seen first-hand the rigorous product development and testing, and they are very serious and pro-active in this area.

I’ve also used Garmin extensively, and found it to be poor. Amateurish. Fine for bobbing around the coast in daylight in an area you know well.
The marine division at Garmin is a very small part of a vast corporation, and the kit reflects this. (To my biased mind!).

I do like the screens I’ve come across from B&G, but when it gets to the nitty gritty, only Raymarine seems to deliver everything I want.

I was a big big fan of Robertson pilots back in the day, but the Raymarine X-15 I fitted to my old Van-de-Stadt was utterly magnificent when I attached it to the original Neco drive from 1979. Spectacular in a raging storm, south of Sardinia in winter where the night was blacker than black and the wave action caused the pair of bulkhead compasses to simply spin freely, like hoola-hoops! Impossible to hand-steer. The pilot saved us.

For VHF I would always have chosen Icom until I did some lengthy passages on new Discovery yachts. I now need reading-glasses for chart work, but I think it’s unacceptable to have to put on glasses to operate the VHF. Yes, I do like the new Raymarine VHFs! No glasses required!! (Others may also qualify!)

It’s not all sunny uplands. Far from it. And naturally I’m biased, but since Raymarine is dedicated to the marine sector, it’s serious about product development, and customer support is still very human and very good - that’s where I’d go - still!!

[tmcdonagh]

Tough decisions all around. I went with Garmin all the way as we plan a transatlantic and the Caribbean. Service and parts seems more readily available than B&G and Raymarine. My girl was also comfortable with Garmin. I switched from B&G Zeus 1 system which I was really happy with.
I put a 12” gpsmap 8612xsv at the helm with a 9” gpsmap 942 at the chart station. Takes some getting used to but overall a good experience. The radar and AIS work well. We mated the reactor40 autopilot head with a Jeffa electromechanical DD-1. It works flawlessly. Would I go with Garmin again? Yes!, it’s plug and play with good support.

[ccanupii]

I would not recommend mix and match of products. I help alot of people who state "I was told it should work" and it doesn't. The best thing is to find an MFD/OS package you think you like, go somewhere to look at a demo (West Marine most likely) and decide from there. The big questions to answer are what range of product they have and how do they get updated? Do you want just a radar and MFD or do you want docking assist and be able to watch Netflix? No matter who you choose, go with what you are comfortable with because Navionics charts run on everyrhing and everything runs Navionics charts.

[Mal Reynolds]

No one here talks about true wind. For me, the autopilot on true wind downwind in heavy seas is magic. Just set the AP to the wind angle that matches your polars and life is amazing, even in gales. This is why I install electronics. Oh, that and depth.

For this, there are really only two choices: B&G and NKE.

Yeah, the Zeus 3S has a lousy navigation interface but I use it as a NMEA2000 data and radar display.

For navigation, I prefer OpenCPN

If I had a trawler or didn't care about true wind, Furuno all the way. Reliability, longevity and service is all there.

All this said, looks like Raymarine is trying to do something with true wind. I remain skeptical of their approach so far. https://www.raymarine.com/en-us/our-...-pricing-table

[walkabout08]

Originally Posted by kaz911

So we have bought a 1998 50' sailboat with full Raymarine Electronics suite. (C140W's/MasterView/SPX30) - most of the Masterview LCD's are dead etc. so we are planning to do a full electronics upgrade.

But what would you choose?

Garmin: Overall ok - but anything bar the new 9000 series is a bit outdated. But the 9000 series is too much. (xx3 series is > 3 years old)

B&G - Again same as above - Zeus 3S is almost 4 years old and development is a bit stale ATM (IMHO). Zeus S (android) is just too limited.

Raymarine - seems to be charging ahead for the first time in 20 years with new sailboat products and updated displays. (Axiom 2, Alpha Displays, RSW Wind sensor etc). On the negative it is Android based - on an old (seemingly) Linux kernel (3.1)

I have NEVER been a Raymarine fan and had preference for B&G/Garmin. But right now I'm kind of re-evaluating my preferences.

What would you choose?

I would go with Garmin. B@G is not the same company it was before being bought out by Navico. My older electronics are still working well. The new chartplotter and radar not so well. My first 3G radar crapped out after 5 years and I got a new Halo for $800. Then last summer it crapped out after two years. I do like aspects of their sailing interface but the hardware is more Fisher Price toy quality than the older bulletproof offshore capable equipment.