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**JPA Cate** · 09-04-2013, 15:06

If this couple are such fine folks, why was it necessary to hold a gun to the kids' grandma's head and tie her up? Not only is this not nice, most places in the US, this is "assault with a deadly weapon", a crime. How great is it for the kids to be subjected to seeing that?

None of us were present, and can't tell what actually did happen. But I would say that we don't know how much of which drugs were used, in what combinations, or the extent to which the kids were "neglected". In substance abusing families, the neglect can be quite extreme, and kids are often left with the parents, anyway. Such families can be highly violent, as well. The guy has previously shown up displaying a weapon.

Grandparents don't have custodial rights over grandkids unless the courts have decided that it's in the kids' best interest. So, I'm thinking that in spite of his presenting himself well on his other internet participation, there may be SERIOUS lack of appropriate parenting here. I'm concerned that there's little potential for a good outcome, as the kids' best interests and the parents' seem to conflict.

What a sad situation.

Sailtexas · 09-04-2013, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by solarpoweredbot

Astoundishing! Authorities knew the departure point shortly after departure and the speed capability (snails pace), and that it had to clear Key West or Dry Tortugas to escape US waters. That had radar, helicopters, Coast Guard, DEA, civilians on lookout, an Homeland Security!
How could he slip under the search net?

Reminds of Wanderer to the South Pacific with Sterling Hayden and his 'stolen' kids.

Ahh fine read that!

Sailtexas · 09-04-2013, 15:49

Apparently the Cubans will send them back:

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.r...catid=57578745

tropicalescape · 09-04-2013, 16:07

I started passing judgement when I read that he tied up the Grandmother..I dont think I would want him around children if he talks about Armageddon and the like,Im sure the old lady was sure that armageddon was fast approching when she was tied up at gun point...

**atoll** · 09-04-2013, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I started passing judgement when I read that he tied up the Grandmother..I dont think I would want him around children if he talks about Armageddon and the like,Im sure the old lady was sure that armageddon was fast approching when she was tied up at gun point...

not all mother-in -law's are equal........some might make armegeddon seem like a blissful alternative....

tropicalescape · 09-04-2013, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

not all mother-in -law's are equal........some might make armegeddon seem like a blissful alternative....

You got me there!..I had forgotten about sweet, loving, caring,Honest(!),gentle,intelligent,beautiful,did I mention Honest mother in laws(its been 20 yrs since I had one)?!! Anyway ,I am sure there are some really good ones out there... Most guys reading this are blessed to have a real sweet ,loving ,caring one that they would like to take sailing on a long cruise out in the deep,deep, azore blue sea ,what a splended trip that would be!!Ha haa,lol..All BS aside, I am glad that they made it safe, and hope them youngones get the care and attention that all children deserve...

Nicholson58 · 09-04-2013, 17:09

[QUOTE=Ann T. Cate;1206780]If this couple are such fine folks, why was it necessary to hold a gun to the kids' grandma's head and tie her up? Not only is this not nice, most places in the US, this is "assault with a deadly weapon", a crime. How great is it for the kids to be subjected to seeing that?

None of us were present, and can't tell what actually did happen. But I would say that we don't know how much of which drugs were used, in what combinations, or the extent to which the kids were "neglected". In substance abusing families, the The guy has previously shown up displaying a weapon.

So, I'm thinking that in spite of his presenting himself well on his other internet participation, there may be SERIOUS lack of appropriate parenting here.

Other threads leave nothing but questions. If he was brandishg a gun why was he not arrested and guns permanently taken? The follow up suggests the weapon accusation was false. It was noted that he tied up the grandparent so she would not be arrested for letting him take his children. The drug was grass - nearly legal almost everywhere - certainly not cause to take children. They were acting strangely - also not cause to take the kids. If I knew it was that easy to loose them I'd have acted like a looney long ago. I keep comming back to there bening absolutely nothing concrete from the law side - only inuendo. If you lipped off to the wrong cop in Louisiana you might be lucky to be alive. You would certainly have a heck of a time if they played the dangerous parent card.

**minaret** · 09-04-2013, 19:20

[QUOTE=Nicholson58;1206922]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

If this couple are such fine folks, why was it necessary to hold a gun to the kids' grandma's head and tie her up? Not only is this not nice, most places in the US, this is "assault with a deadly weapon", a crime. How great is it for the kids to be subjected to seeing that?

None of us were present, and can't tell what actually did happen. But I would say that we don't know how much of which drugs were used, in what combinations, or the extent to which the kids were "neglected". In substance abusing families, the The guy has previously shown up displaying a weapon.

So, I'm thinking that in spite of his presenting himself well on his other internet participation, there may be SERIOUS lack of appropriate parenting here.

Other threads leave nothing but questions. If he was brandishg a gun why was he not arrested and guns permanently taken? The follow up suggests the weapon accusation was false. It was noted that he tied up the grandparent so she would not be arrested for letting him take his children. The drug was grass - nearly legal almost everywhere - certainly not cause to take children. They were acting strangely - also not cause to take the kids. If I knew it was that easy to loose them I'd have acted like a looney long ago. I keep comming back to there bening absolutely nothing concrete from the law side - only inuendo. If you lipped off to the wrong cop in Louisiana you might be lucky to be alive. You would certainly have a heck of a time if they played the dangerous parent card.

I'm with you on this one. I've spent a lot of time down south and wouldn't trust most cops down there at all, through much personal experience. When the arresting officers describe some grass as "narcotics", you know you're about to be screwed. The whole "acting strangely" bit seems to be BS, as was the media reports that they were arrested at an "anti-government" rally, whatever that is. These people seem to have gotten in an argument at their hotel, the police were called due to a disturbance, and found some pot and hand guns. And here we are, looks like the Slidell police are refusing to release the arrest report just to cover their ass. I could be wrong, but this looks like yet another case of "southern justice". Probably lipped off to the wrong officer.

**JPA Cate** · 09-04-2013, 19:43

Hi, Minaret,

Just want to say, cops called to a "disturbance in a hotel", found drugs and guns. This sounds like a violent couple. Most often such a man completely dominates his wife and kids.

I repeat, threatening the grandma with a pistol is an assault with a deadly weapon. If somebody threatened me with a gun, I'd be scared.

Violent, drug-using households may be poly-drug abusing households, many possible mixtures, some of which increase the violence potential.

The police (even southern thug police) do see the worst situations, and so do the social workers. They probably don't even know users who are not abusers. Cops hate domestic violence calls; they are likely to become the victims. So, yeah, it's possible the father is a victim of police over-reaction. But, he's got a history of showing up places armed. He threatened his mother-in-law with a gun and tied her up. I have to wonder how violent he is generally, and which drugs does he use and how much, for they really do affect behavior.

I agree that we don't know what happened here, AND I feel quite concerned for the welfare of the woman and the children.

**minaret** · 09-04-2013, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hi, Minaret,

Just want to say, cops called to a "disturbance in a hotel", found drugs and guns. This sounds like a violent couple. Most often such a man completely dominates his wife and kids.

I repeat, threatening the grandma with a pistol is an assault with a deadly weapon. If somebody threatened me with a gun, I'd be scared.

Violent, drug-using households may be poly-drug abusing households, many possible mixtures, some of which increase the violence potential.

The police (even southern thug police) do see the worst situations, and so do the social workers. They probably don't even know users who are not abusers. Cops hate domestic violence calls; they are likely to become the victims. So, yeah, it's possible the father is a victim of police over-reaction. But, he's got a history of showing up places armed. He threatened his mother-in-law with a gun and tied her up. I have to wonder how violent he is generally, and which drugs does he use and how much, for they really do affect behavior.

I agree that we don't know what happened here, AND I feel quite concerned for the welfare of the woman and the children.

Note that ALL of the threatening people with a gun stuff came after they took his kids away. As far as I can tell, he had no record of anything like that prior to his kids being forcibly removed. The grandma has already admitted that he didn't really threaten her and only tied her up to provide her an excuse for letting him leave with the children. It sounds like even she thought this was a travesty and was working with him. No record of any drugs other than pot too. It bothers me when alcoholic cops can arrest a man and take his kids away for some herb. Clearly it REALLY bothered him. This guy is hardly an example of model parenting or good decision making, but I really do think his actions may have been the result of a total miscarriage of justice. Seen it far too many times, I think you may know my wife is charge nurse at Seattle's metro King County Jail. She gets personally involved in every single arrest made in King County, and I could tell you some harrowing tales about this sort of thing. In the south it's often much worse, a friend was murdered by police there. Just like the Chavis Carter case, except they said he committed suicide in the back of a patrol car with a gun they left in the front. He was shot in the head twice while handcuffed. They get away with all sorts of stuff down there, they're like the mob almost. You don't want to cross them.

Chavis Carter Case: Father Blasts Police Account Of Son's Death, 'I Don't Believe It For One Second'

**JPA Cate** · 09-04-2013, 20:38

Hi, Minaret,

"I think you may know my wife is charge nurse at Seattle's metro King County Jail." Nope, but now I do. And I agree there is a lot of unnecessary police violence. Alcoholic cops are drug abusers, too.

Where I'm coming from with this is that it is open to interpretation, and your wife, at the jail, doesn't see the victims of spousal or parental abuse she'd see if she were charge nurse at the local general hospital, where she'd be seeing the victims of domestic violence.

My concerns are based on knowledge of patterns of behavior in abusive families, and interactions between drugs and the people in those families. What has been outlined above in the thread are extremely evocative of a domestic violence pattern. That is the basis for my concern. I do definitely believe he MAY be the victim of dreadful police practice. Just not convinced. I actually hope you're right, and that we aren't looking in from the outside at a tragically abusive family situation. One never knows for sure what goes on behind other people's closed doors.

Ann

**minaret** · 09-04-2013, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hi, Minaret,

"I think you may know my wife is charge nurse at Seattle's metro King County Jail." Nope, but now I do. And I agree there is a lot of unnecessary police violence. Alcoholic cops are drug abusers, too.

Where I'm coming from with this is that it is open to interpretation, and your wife, at the jail, doesn't see the victims of spousal or parental abuse she'd see if she were charge nurse at the local general hospital, where she'd be seeing the victims of domestic violence.

My concerns are based on knowledge of patterns of behavior in abusive families, and interactions between drugs and the people in those families. What has been outlined above in the thread are extremely evocative of a domestic violence pattern. That is the basis for my concern. I do definitely believe he MAY be the victim of dreadful police practice. Just not convinced. I actually hope you're right, and that we aren't looking in from the outside at a tragically abusive family situation. One never knows for sure what goes on behind other people's closed doors.

Ann

Certainly both could be true as well, ie abusive family and abusive officials. Or neither. Nothing about this situation smells good on any side, that's for sure. Sure is sad for the kids. The wife seems like a willing accomplice, but you never know...

kthoennes · 09-04-2013, 23:10

Pretty ironic that Florida OCS (child services) is involved at all and making statements on this story. If anybody remembers, Florida child services probably has the worst record in the nation for dead, lost, and abused kids held and placed in its custody. Everybody has apparently forgotten the scandals with lost and dead kids.