Encouraging live aboards

[goboatingnow]

I had an interesting period many years ago and this is what informs my opinion.

I was part of a NGO group that identified people living on the “ fringes “ of society. My role involved identifying people living in derelict boats moored around the centre of the capital other people did other homeless people

It involved 8 people /vessels , it was extremely illuminating ,

these people existed on the margins of society often with personality disorders , mental Illness , alcohol and or drug issues and a fear of “ authority. “ . Most found it very difficult to cooperate with conventional society. All had tales of illness , broken marriages , unemployment etc.

Our goal was to get them into the social housing process/programme so they could be rehoused. These people could not or would not access these programs due the bureaucracy and writing skills etc.

The living conditions were shocking , old vessels , improper toilets , poor hygiene , cold and damp , how these people made it through the winters was amazing.

Then they were subject to anti social behaviour even though the police made significant efforts to protect them.

We were successful in housing 6 in their own new homes , 1 died in the process and 1 was transferred to a long term mental health treatment facility.

Hence forgive me when people go on about the poor in boats as a “ alternative “ lifestyle , it’s nothing of the sort

I left the group half way through as I was transferred back to the US but everyone offered a house took it over the boat. All the boats had to cut up in a dry dock. Several were designated hazards and require professional isolation gear.

[tamicatana]

Here in the Keys it is a cheap way to live in a high-cost area. And these sods treat the boats as disposable and the taxpayers pay the bill when they are abandoned and/or destroyed in weather. Small wonder the anchoring rules become draconian. I live aboard and don’t blame the municipalities one bit

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Because making people pay absorbitant feee to be educated is an abomination In any wealthy developed country. Most countries subsidise third level from the public purse that’s right and proper

The US student loans were both morally wrong and unsustainable hence it’s easy right to write them off

Too complicated a subject to really cover here AND off-topic, but the reason tuitions are high in the U.S. is BECAUSE of student loans. Government loan subsidies have allowed tuitions to rise unchecked to the degree that now most people can't afford college without the loans. And for what reason? So colleges can have semi-professional football and luxury dorms?

Forgiving loans doesn't solve the problem, but does push some folk's debt onto other people who are even LESS capable of handling the debt. The problem with loan forgiveness is that it didn't even address the actual problem: no checks or limits for college costs, and subsidizing private schools on the public dime. Even those with multi-billion dollar endowments. At a certain point, you have to stop the madness.

Had the debt forgiveness been based on need, it might have been at least partially justified, but forgiving debt to med school, business school, and law school for the richest kids in the U.S., and shuffling that debt to blue collar workers is the reality of what was done. Sure some needy folks got help. Also many more who didn't need the help.

Education is subsidized everywhere, including the U.S. Pushing the debts of the wealthy onto those less fortunate for political purpose is normally something people who are vocally supporting this move would argue against.

In most countries where higher education is free, the opportunities are limited by the number of seats available. Not everyone gets to attend college. And not everybody should have to.

In the U.S., higher education continues to get watered down, and is often required for jobs that shouldn't even need it. Recently, there has been some pushback. Maryland recently re-visited their requirements that everyone have a college degree for some of their jobs. Turns out removing that requirement made jobs accessible without incurring massive debt.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Too complicated a subject to really cover here AND off-topic, but the reason tuitions are high in the U.S. is BECAUSE of student loans. Government loan subsidies have allowed tuitions to rise unchecked to the degree that now most people can't afford college without the loans. And for what reason? So colleges can have semi-professional football and luxury dorms?

Forgiving loans doesn't solve the problem, but does push some folk's debt onto other people who are even LESS capable of handling the debt. The problem with loan forgiveness is that it didn't even address the actual problem: no checks or limits for college costs, and subsidizing private schools on the public dime. Even those with multi-billion dollar endowments. At a certain point, you have to stop the madness.

Had the debt forgiveness been based on need, it might have been at least partially justified, but forgiving debt to med school, business school, and law school for the richest kids in the U.S., and shuffling that debt to blue collar workers is the reality of what was done. Sure some needy folks got help. Also many more who didn't need the help.

Education is subsidized everywhere, including the U.S. Pushing the debts of the wealthy onto those less fortunate for political purpose is normally something people who are vocally supporting this move would argue against.

In most countries where higher education is free, the opportunities are limited by the number of seats available. Not everyone gets to attend college. And not everybody should have to.

In the U.S., higher education continues to get watered down, and is often required for jobs that shouldn't even need it. Recently, there has been some pushback. Maryland recently re-visited their requirements that everyone have a college degree for some of their jobs. Turns out removing that requirement made jobs accessible without incurring massive debt.

Sure sure but the debt should have never been allowed to occur on the first place. That’s all. But I agree Education shouldn’t be a commercial activity anyway as this generates the wrong priorities and escalating costs. This becomes a vicious circle. Medicine is the same. These things are way too important to left to a unregulated market

It’s also why we have homeless and people thinking of living on a boat. A failure of policy

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No yacht is cheaper then a house !

Depends on the house. Depends on the yachts. No?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It’s also why we have homeless and people thinking of living on a boat. A failure of policy

I don't think most people living on boats are doing it because they can't find social support.

For many, it might be a combination of economic pressures and an ideal of the freedom of boat living. Look! Sunsets!

Not unlike those who seek the open road in an RV, but living on the water has a few additional complications.

For those who aren't interested in sailing, living on the water might start out sounding great, but I'm sure it takes on a life of it own, as one fights the elements in an aging boat.

[JoetheCobbler]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

T

Why would a house have a steel roof , what you describe sounds more like a commercial building

We need to compare the cost of maintainence of a small relatively modern house as to a small relatively modern boat.

My house was built in 1995. Other then the wife deciding she want a bathroom changed , there are no enforced maintenance projects.

The boat has ongoing maintenance including things that break , anyifouling etc. , plus haulout charges etc.

Boat operating costs 2x the house easily

Steel roofing is quite common on residential single family homes.
I've worked with roofing crews for several years installing steel roofing on homes.
As for yo contention about the roofing not lasting due to the proximity to salt water, hahaha.
Laughable, put steel on a dozen homes on Smith island MD and offshore island in MD over ten years ago , they're 30 yr guaranteed.
It's statements like these that demonstrate you're not as informed as you'd like everyone else to believe !
And your's is clearly not the only way .
But. You've made it clear, you're convinced you're omnipotent !!

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

I was quite displeased to find a pair of popular YouTube channels (Gone with the Wynns / Nautistyles) collaborating on a video that encourages the idea of “Live on a boat… it’s cheaper than ashore”. While their example was a million dollar used yacht, the overall impact of their statements apply at all levels. In my humble opinion, this is a horrible message they are sending. We have enough issues with people trying to move onto boats as a way of living cheaply. Both coasts are seeing more and more anchoring grounds being restricted as jurisdictions try to keep out the derelict liveaboards. I’m not against a boater living aboard. I AM against encouraging complete non-boaters to go move onto a boat because it’s cheaper than ashore!

I’ve enjoyed many of The Wynns videos in the past due to their interesting travels, and excellent videography, but this one kind of set us off as we watched last night.

Here’s a link. If you bother to watch, I hope you’ll comment on the stupidity of this video. I didn’t bother watching the Nautistyle video as I have never like their channel.

https://youtu.be/qtu7IPvfWWs

So I went back and actually watched that video. All I noted that they were stating that *this* expensive yacht that they were looking at is cheaper than specific regional waterfront home options that they cited. I didn't get them saying or suggesting a general boat<$home statement, just that it could be in a specific compared example. I may have missed it but I think that is all the video said. What is the problem?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Too complicated a subject to really cover here AND off-topic, but the reason tuitions are high in the U.S. is BECAUSE of student loans. Government loan subsidies have allowed tuitions to rise unchecked to the degree that now most people can't afford college without the loans. And for what reason? So colleges can have semi-professional football and luxury dorms?

Forgiving loans doesn't solve the problem, but does push some folk's debt onto other people who are even LESS capable of handling the debt. The problem with loan forgiveness is that it didn't even address the actual problem: no checks or limits for college costs, and subsidizing private schools on the public dime. Even those with multi-billion dollar endowments. At a certain point, you have to stop the madness.

Had the debt forgiveness been based on need, it might have been at least partially justified, but forgiving debt to med school, business school, and law school for the richest kids in the U.S., and shuffling that debt to blue collar workers is the reality of what was done. Sure some needy folks got help. Also many more who didn't need the help.

Education is subsidized everywhere, including the U.S. Pushing the debts of the wealthy onto those less fortunate for political purpose is normally something people who are vocally supporting this move would argue against.

In most countries where higher education is free, the opportunities are limited by the number of seats available. Not everyone gets to attend college. And not everybody should have to.

In the U.S., higher education continues to get watered down, and is often required for jobs that shouldn't even need it. Recently, there has been some pushback. Maryland recently re-visited their requirements that everyone have a college degree for some of their jobs. Turns out removing that requirement made jobs accessible without incurring massive debt.

I was lucky I went before the government got involved.
I actually did half days at the high school and half at the college . A summer of classes after I graduated and I graduated with my degree as a shipwright. I paid my schooling off as I went along .working at a marina .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sure sure but the debt should have never been allowed to occur on the first place. That’s all. But I agree Education shouldn’t be a commercial activity anyway as this generates the wrong priorities and escalating costs. This becomes a vicious circle. Medicine is the same. These things are way too important to left to a unregulated market

It’s also why we have homeless and people thinking of living on a boat. A failure of policy

The big problem is not an unregulated market. It's the government involvement that is the problem a free market is self regulatory if the government keeps out of it.

The scariest 10 words in the English language. " I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. "

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

You are completely correct.

It’s entirely inappropriate to *suggest boat living is an acceptable substitute for housing policy as a general social aim* Again it’s rich people telling poor people how to live while glossing over 100s of issues and details.

Based on my watching this, they never said or implied the above statement in any general sense much less *as a social aim* in this in the video; go watch it and let me know if I'm off base. My take is the OP took a fairly gratuitous extrapolation of the actual video content and proceeded thence to offense.

I think, fairly that a lot of people in the US are considering used boats *specifically due to initial purchase price* as compared with a home price which they find financially inaccessible with the other option being spiraling rent costs. Real estate as an investment vehicle is a luxury of those with excess capital and not an option for many. I do realize from your comments that you don't like to consider US examples but in fairness both a lot of the examples of the problem are commonly referenced as being in US waters and also a large segment of CF participants are US based, so its not like US housing & rent prices/tax policy etc.. are a effectively a rounding error in consideration of the dynamic that is bothering the OP. Also if you don't pay your taxes on your home and property - which go on forever and ever - depending on the jurisdiction, the tax authority and sometimes the mortgage holder can foreclose the tax lien and sell your home regardless of equity. So at best, the "ownership" is joint with you, the state and sometimes a mortgage holder, so yeah, "quit paying your taxes and you'll meet the real owners" is a thing.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Here modern ( post 1970 ) concrete houses require very little maintenance , certainly within the first 60 years,

Try selling a house that hasn't been touched in 30-40yrs. You will take a huge hit due to it being so dated even if everything works.

No one wants orange shag carpet and olive green kitchen appliances from the 70's, so if you don't keep it up you won't get the market rate.

Reasonably figure a face lift every 20-30yrs if you want to keep the value.

[Mike OReilly]

Interesting question/thoughts about boating lifestyle being more conducive to making social connections. In general, I'd agree.

It's easier to be social -- to create community -- when there are common elements to the members. Those who live on boats (either full or part time) already have a major factor of their collective lives in common. In a sense, it's already a self-selected group, so it makes sense that social connections will be easier.

On the water, people tend to be more dependent on each other vs on land. There tends to be fewer services, and fewer supports, so the boating community leans more heavily on itself. This too promotes a sense of community. It's really no different than small town communities, where there tends to be stronger social connections as well.

On land, the diversity of lifestyles runs far deeper. Access to services and supports are far greater. Most large urban dwellers are unlikely to know many of their neighbours because they don't have to. People live and work separate from their neighbours. They may go weeks or months and not even see each other. This is true of the US, Canada, but also true around the western world, as any quick search on the topic reveals.

[smj]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Try selling a house that hasn't been touched in 30-40yrs. You will take a huge hit due to it being so dated even if everything works.



No one wants orange shag carpet and olive green kitchen appliances from the 70's, so if you don't keep it up you won't get the market rate.



Reasonably figure a face lift every 20-30yrs if you want to keep the value.

When built close to salt water we usually figure the first 10 years are close to maintenance free, then it kicks in.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JoetheCobbler

Steel roofing is quite common on residential single family homes.
I've worked with roofing crews for several years installing steel roofing on homes.
As for yo contention about the roofing not lasting due to the proximity to salt water, hahaha.
Laughable, put steel on a dozen homes on Smith island MD and offshore island in MD over ten years ago , they're 30 yr guaranteed.
It's statements like these that demonstrate you're not as informed as you'd like everyone else to believe !
And your's is clearly not the only way .
But. You've made it clear, you're convinced you're omnipotent !!

It’s not that I’m omnipotent. I merely what’s on all thf houses around me and it’s not steel. Here houses are brick and concrete , and also true where my boat is.

I’m well aware of commercial steel roofs. I owned three warehouses. But none would use them on personal properties here’s , far too expensive and there are maintenance issues. I’d want 100 year warranties.

Maintenance is minimal. You never never get people saying “ I’m spending 10,000 on repairing the roof”

I’ve given this thread , actual numbers that I can stand over . I can’t comment about other places and i didn’t. I don’t care what’s the story In Florida.

My house is cheaper to maintain then my boat. My friends house is cheaper. My neighbours is cheaper. Etc etc. enforced maintenance is minimal. End of story.

Ok so maybe we understand houses and not boats , living in my home climate through the winter is trurely miserable to boot , I wouldn’t dream of it on a boat. It’s a F10 every weekend.

My point again

If you are financially secure and want to move into a boat. that you Can maintain and moor safety. Go ahead it’s great, I shoujd know I do it


Dont tell it’s a general alternative to housing especially if you are financially insecure it’s not.