Antagonists - or just me

[Gerrit Coetzee]

I started out in 2018 as first time boat owner, jumping in the deep side: Allowed circumstances to influence me and bought one 45ft salvaged hurricane damaged power boat and one landlocked perfect condition Catamaran.

Against all advices, I initiated repair works in the BVI.

I completed the repairs 90% and left out of frustration. Hauled out in St.Kitts and left the power boat there and sailed to Puerto Rico via St.Croix and hauled out in PR.

I spent some $250,000 - $300,000 on repairs between the two boats between the three islands.

I spent 1 year, 3 .months, and 1½ years on each island.

My situation differs intrinsically from others who visited these destinations on a 2 week or so holiday.

On all the islands, in the marinas, they rule with a iron fist and if you don't have the money, you don't get helped. That is how it works.

So it works with every business.

But then there is the exploitation. One contractor in the BVI installed a starter on the one engine for $175 and $3,000 for labour - and if I don't pay he would attach my boat and drag me through a yearlong court case. The second biggest pitfall.
In PR I encountered a similar situation. Repainted my Cat hull blue and bottom paint for $12,000. Now 8 months later my boat is attaches as I am sued $52,000 for the same work. This time I am defending the case, but I am stuck in PR for the duration of the court case. (He refused, like everybody else in the Caribbean, to give a quotation,, now it is me said he said situation).

My situation is unique and I don't see others in these ordeals.

This is not my writing here. I am writing about the general attitude of the pure local people on each island.

I will start with BVI, the locals who acquired rights under the title 'Belongers'. British citizens have no rights there, whilst 'Belongers' have visa free, access to England and equal rights in Britain. That is not the issue, but introductory to their attitude. From Road Town to the west the area is more inviting to foreigners and totally open on the North. But from Road Town to Beef Island I experienced rude racism and antagonism to the decree of feeling threatened.
I am 6'4 but in a foreign country and jails close by, I don't want to be confrontational inspite of my posture.

In St.Kitts I saw a French sailor being arrested for sailing past the island without a visa. 3 weeks jail and €4,000 fine. The level of aggressiveness I witnessed was disheartening.

St.Croix, anchoring in Frederiksted, the darker side of the island, we found unhelpful unfriendly stern people. Short stay there, but could not not notice the antagonism.

Ended up in Puerto Rico:
There are 5% by estimation very friendly, very helpful, joy to be around people. They can normally speak some English and is very accommodating- but one swallow does not make a summer.

I apologise for every good Puerto Rican I am friends with. This is my wining about the rest - remember I cannot leave the island whilst my boat is attached, as I was living on board.

I am a Caucasian foreigner and not from the US.
The remainder of 95% people here hates only on nation more than Americans, and that is Africans. I feel trapped as being Caucasian in this hate spiral. They hate Americans, but can't wait long enough for the next USA grant.
I stand with money 💰 in the hand, but contractors will not help you, or they will help any other Puerto Rican before they help you. I have not one single upgrade/repair project on the boat in completion after 4 months on the boat yard.

I phone contractors and they will put the phone down in your ear when they hear I speak English or when I try Spanish.

Today I phoned a shop enquiring when I can collect my Radar support, which is there for powder coating, he just put the phone down whilst I am speaking.

The unfriendly people everywhere are tangible. We were helping a boater with charters to keep our time filled. The guests would tell us over and over again that they had the most wonderful day, and the only pleasant day during their visit in PR.

If this is the case, that it is not just me, how do these people get by, by being the absolute worst towards people who supports their industry?

[JPA Cate]

Fwiw, it sounds to me like elements of culture clash, very different expectations on your and their parts, coupled with not enough local knowledge in advance.

Most places we've been that are English speaking, it is still necessary to manage the project actively, and often it helps if you are allowed to work alongside them. In Mexico, this was not the case, owner participation was not allowed at all.

If there is something about how you speak English, that they don't like, either place, that could be a possible problem, too.

Still and all, it is a very frustrating situation, and I hope you are very nice to your lawyer. He or she is the one who can tell you what you needed to know in advance, but didn't; maybe the takeaway is - if you're ever in the position again - to pay up front for legal advice about how to proceed. Or even ask on the forum, in advance. Sorry you're in such a difficult situation.

Ann
JPA Cate

[flightlead404]

Pick up a copy of Don't Stop the Carnival by Herman Wouk. Read it a few times. Do a Norman Paperman.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Hi Ann,

Thank you, maybe a culture difference/clash can be part of it.

My English does play a role then. I don't articulate well.

Thank you for the sympathy and advice

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

Pick up a copy of Don't Stop the Carnival by Herman Wouk. Read it a few times. Do a Norman Paperman.

The title sounds familiar and I will source that, plus read more on what "Do a Norman Paperman' is.

Sounds cool.

[Deep Blue Water]

Gerrit, I have to ask because I'm amazed, what persuaded you to take on the monumental task of purchasing and refitting two boats?

[Tetepare]

1. Two sides to every story

2. Always get an estimate in writing

3. Sucker born every minute

4. $10k can disappear somebody. Sounds like someone needs disappearing

5. Foreigners don’t win against locals in court. Period. See #4

[Paul L]

Unfortunate story. You took on a big project(s) and had money for the locals blow through. Doing major boat work in much of the Carib is clearly a false economy. Anywhere that does decent, reputable work still needs continuous daily monitoring.

As far as the locals attitude, I think the Carib suffers from too high expectations. It has been written about for so long as a tropical paradise, that too many have a view of happy, helpful locals frolicking in the wonderful weather. Reality is pretty different.
It may be worse now with more communications, and social media. First time I sailed in the Carib was a long time ago, about 45 years. There were islands that had plenty of ugly locals back then. Maybe more places that were a lot less tourist touched with far more friendly and interesting locals.
Cruised again back in the '80s and remember the murder of a cruiser. So paradise it's not. Still good sailing and some great people, but it isn't all boat drinks with little umbrellas.

[Hesti]

Sounds like you are being fleeced. Perhaps by a well set up fleecing machine. Do you have a chance to talk to diplomatic representation of your home country and ask for advice?

Beyond that - how about paying up and getting the hell out of the place? In case you are dealing with a well set up fleecing machine, the fleecing may not stop as long as there is still something to be gotten from you. Your boat may deteriorate while not in use in more ways than one which could make further work necessary, ... Chances are, that a court ruling may not be black/white but in between, so, do not count on paying only 12 k instead of 52 k.

Next beyond that - you have to rely on others for help. Which makes you very vulnerable. Try to improve your own repair skills to be less dependant.

Next beyond that - start to go by recommendations from other cruisers. It might help in avoiding bad places.

[Hesti]

A recommendation from my better half: Finland. Happiest people on earth, good boat yards and very very very correct on business. Not cheap, but very very very correct.

I would add all of Scandinavia and also Estonia. Thousands of islands, mobile phones tend to work everywhere, ... Only issue is the winter.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Hesti

A recommendation from my better half: Finland. Happiest people on earth, good boat yards and very very very correct on business. Not cheap, but very very very correct.

I would add all of Scandinavia and also Estonia. Thousands of islands, mobile phones tend to work everywhere, ... Only issue is the winter.

Spent many a business trip in Helsinki. Lovely people but the winter ahhhhh

[Stewie12]

There are simply too many yachts who have too much money , which leads to all the problems you are encountering.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

The title sounds familiar and I will source that, plus read more on what "Do a Norman Paperman' is.

Sounds cool.

It should be the Bible for anyone who intends to spend any time down that way

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

I started out in 2018 as first time boat owner, jumping in the deep side: Allowed circumstances to influence me and bought one 45ft salvaged hurricane damaged power boat and one landlocked perfect condition Catamaran.

Against all advices, I initiated repair works in the BVI.

I completed the repairs 90% and left out of frustration. Hauled out in St.Kitts and left the power boat there and sailed to Puerto Rico via St.Croix and hauled out in PR.

I spent some $250,000 - $300,000 on repairs between the two boats between the three islands.

I spent 1 year, 3 .months, and 1½ years on each island.

My situation differs intrinsically from others who visited these destinations on a 2 week or so holiday.

On all the islands, in the marinas, they rule with a iron fist and if you don't have the money, you don't get helped. That is how it works.

So it works with every business.

But then there is the exploitation. One contractor in the BVI installed a starter on the one engine for $175 and $3,000 for labour - and if I don't pay he would attach my boat and drag me through a yearlong court case. The second biggest pitfall.
In PR I encountered a similar situation. Repainted my Cat hull blue and bottom paint for $12,000. Now 8 months later my boat is attaches as I am sued $52,000 for the same work. This time I am defending the case, but I am stuck in PR for the duration of the court case. (He refused, like everybody else in the Caribbean, to give a quotation,, now it is me said he said situation).

My situation is unique and I don't see others in these ordeals.

This is not my writing here. I am writing about the general attitude of the pure local people on each island.

I will start with BVI, the locals who acquired rights under the title 'Belongers'. British citizens have no rights there, whilst 'Belongers' have visa free, access to England and equal rights in Britain. That is not the issue, but introductory to their attitude. From Road Town to the west the area is more inviting to foreigners and totally open on the North. But from Road Town to Beef Island I experienced rude racism and antagonism to the decree of feeling threatened.
I am 6'4 but in a foreign country and jails close by, I don't want to be confrontational inspite of my posture.

In St.Kitts I saw a French sailor being arrested for sailing past the island without a visa. 3 weeks jail and €4,000 fine. The level of aggressiveness I witnessed was disheartening.

St.Croix, anchoring in Frederiksted, the darker side of the island, we found unhelpful unfriendly stern people. Short stay there, but could not not notice the antagonism.

Ended up in Puerto Rico:
There are 5% by estimation very friendly, very helpful, joy to be around people. They can normally speak some English and is very accommodating- but one swallow does not make a summer.

I apologise for every good Puerto Rican I am friends with. This is my wining about the rest - remember I cannot leave the island whilst my boat is attached, as I was living on board.

I am a Caucasian foreigner and not from the US.
The remainder of 95% people here hates only on nation more than Americans, and that is Africans. I feel trapped as being Caucasian in this hate spiral. They hate Americans, but can't wait long enough for the next USA grant.
I stand with money 💰 in the hand, but contractors will not help you, or they will help any other Puerto Rican before they help you. I have not one single upgrade/repair project on the boat in completion after 4 months on the boat yard.

I phone contractors and they will put the phone down in your ear when they hear I speak English or when I try Spanish.

Today I phoned a shop enquiring when I can collect my Radar support, which is there for powder coating, he just put the phone down whilst I am speaking.

The unfriendly people everywhere are tangible. We were helping a boater with charters to keep our time filled. The guests would tell us over and over again that they had the most wonderful day, and the only pleasant day during their visit in PR.

If this is the case, that it is not just me, how do these people get by, by being the absolute worst towards people who supports their industry?

So everywhere you go you have problems others only read about? Even if I believed your story of ill treatment at every turn or phone call wasn't gross exaggeration, and I do not, the only way out of your predicament is the liberal application of US Dollars. The sooner you start the cheaper this will be.

[kazo]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

It should be the Bible for anyone who intends to spend any time down that way

it was first published in 1965, wondering of its relevancy today for a visiting sailor..

The forums are repleted with the happy sailing stories in the region, although admittedly the OP experience is more of a business going wrong.