Antagonists - or just me

[Hesti]

About the fact, that once on the hard, you are at the merci of the yard - that is so true and not just where you are. I have seen boatyards in Europe pull beautiful wooden boats in the summer and letting them stand on the hard for weeks in the bright sunlights and warm dry winds. The hulls dry out, seams open, planks and deadwood split and whatever work originally needed doing - repairing the damage from drying out comes on top. When owners could not afford that additional work, what had been a beautiful boat that needed a bit of work turned into a wreck. So - that can happen even in Europe. With fiberglass, it is a bit different, but things like holes in the deck from replacing hardware left open by the yard for weeks and months when it rained - have happened to me even in Germany. If I had not closed them myself, wooden structure below would have become water damaged. So - yes, you have to look after your boat even when it is in a yard - with many many yards in many many places. Or there will be additional damage.

It seems you have been fleeced before when the equipment from your just acquired boat was stolen. So, the current issue is not the first. For whatever reason, you are a target. That is not good.

Two more aspects:
1. Get rid of one of the boats subito. There is the concept of boat husbandry, decide on one of the boats and be there for it. Otherwise, with you being a target, when you look after boat a in place 1, nasty things may happen to boat b in place 2.

2. Already mentioned by others: Consider to just end the adventure completely.

And: If your home country has diplomatic representation, talk to the diplomatic representation and seek their advice. Already tomorrow. They will know if fighting makes any sense or not. They will know if there are strings worth pulling or not. They will also know if you are in danger of coming close to the 10k solution mentioned above by others. At the moment, you have only lost a lot of money.

[Hesti]

Some more ...

With the need to have a lot of your work done by boatyards, roughly budget for around 10 % of the price of a similar sized new boat for the upkeep for maintenance and repairs. Per year. Per boat. If you do a lot yourself, depending on your skill level, calculate your own hour at say 15 to 20 USD in the equation to get an idea how much time you need to invest to save spending money. With two 40 footers, this is a lot already. And yes, the figure 10 % can be debated, it is just for rough budgeting.

There is a nasty joke here in Germany about the German North Sea Islands: What is the easiest way to leave a North Sea Island with 1 Million? Answer: To go there with 2 Million.

[Hesti]

Some more boatyard gripe:

Twice I have had work done on the engine. In both cases, I had to clear out a few litres of Diesel from the bilge afterwards. As we have a liner inside, it is not possible to eliminate the smell completely. I could go on ...

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

But, you are correct. Above a certain latitude, skin tone changes, ethics change and principles prevail. I sold my soul chasing year-round warm climate and warm seas.

Make no mistake: Black people have the ability to discern a racist - even when he's tall and clothed in "friendly greetings".

I lived and worked on boats in and out of the BVIs for a little over 5 years and never experienced what you describe. In fact, we specifically went to the main yard in Roadtown to get all the varnish on a 55' Little Harbour redone because the varnishers there have one of the best reputations in the Caribbean.

The caveat was that we (crew) and captain were on the boat every day - working alongside the local yard staff. (We were installing new electronics while they were varnishing.)

The point is, the boat's crew were on the boat daily 8-5pm effectively monitoring the progress of all tasks on the boat's to-do list. We were in constant communication with the yard staff working with us, as well as daily check-ins with the Yard Manager.

LittleWing77

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

Learned so far:

...

6. If they don't give a quote, don't let them do the job. (Which means you have to take the boat out of the Caribbean)

7. Do not think that because you are friendly and greeting everyone, that they will bother to great you back - you are a foreigner and they don't want to be your friend whilst sucking the live out of you.

8. They are miserable because they are constipated in their soul; and I cannot fix that, and more money won't fix it either.

My experience is only in Grenada. I do/did most of my own work but the stuff I farmed out was done well, if at times a bit slowly. I always was given estimates and the price of the job was the estimate.

Re your #8 and #7, I found the people in the yards and beyond to be agreeable and good to deal with. I did not find them to be miserable at all. I have travelled to dozens of countries by sea and by land and have found the vast majority of people to be just fine. Race or ethnicity doesn't seem to matter. You have had a bad experience, but as others have said perhaps it is time for you to think about how you interact with others before putting all the blame on them.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

My experiences in the Caribbean have lead me to view it as mainly a first world tourism project bolted into a third world country. In many of those countries go outside the carefully controlled tourist areas and its abject poverty** . This brings resentment , personally I don’t go there anymore , I want to vacation in places where the locals eat and drink in the same restaurants as me.

** This was very noticeable in Barbados , Antigua, USVI and BVI , less so in the French islands.

Yes, the abject poverty is very real. But, there also seems to be no shortage of new cars amongst them either. I also feel there is a very prevalent lack of self. Poverty is one thing, but when the personal surroundings are one heap of unremoved rubbish, junk and clear lack of common upkeep, the problem does not start or end with money. That gets to me.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Sorry to hear about the difficult experiences.

I am going to venture a theory: that the industry that most matters to most Caribbean islands is straight-up tourism. They want people to book in advance, show up, visit the touristy places, buy stuff, and leave. A short charter fits into that category. They are perhaps less enthused by foreigners "moving in" as liveaboards, or using the islands like they would any boatyard in your home country. In other words, it sounds like they'd rather be fixing the charter boats, or the megayachts of the high-rollers, than those of DIYers and people expecting the sort of efficient service they're used to back home (? ).

My Caribbean experience is as a tourist maybe 5 times, and just one 8-day BVIs bareboat charter (which we thoroughly enjoyed). Our experiences were almost always great. But I did feel that the more we stepped off the "tourist" path, the more awkward or alien I felt. Not that people were hostile, just that it was unrealistic of us to think we, as foreigners who obviously are well-off by comparison, would be welcomed if we just "went native" without being more in tune with the locals or understanding their reality. These are mostly small islands with limited space and resources, and few industries besides tourism, and a lower overall standard of living.

I don't think this attitude is the case for all islands in paradise, or was the default throughout modern history. And certainly COVID and the travel restrictions have made the past two years more difficult for everyone... perhaps COVID is the biggest factor?

I think you are spot on with your theory, thus making it factual.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Hesti

About the fact, that once on the hard, you are at the merci of the yard - that is so true and not just where you are. I have seen boatyards in Europe pull beautiful wooden boats in the summer and letting them stand on the hard for weeks in the bright sunlights and warm dry winds. The hulls dry out, seams open, planks and deadwood split and whatever work originally needed doing - repairing the damage from drying out comes on top. When owners could not afford that additional work, what had been a beautiful boat that needed a bit of work turned into a wreck. So - that can happen even in Europe. With fiberglass, it is a bit different, but things like holes in the deck from replacing hardware left open by the yard for weeks and months when it rained - have happened to me even in Germany. If I had not closed them myself, wooden structure below would have become water damaged. So - yes, you have to look after your boat even when it is in a yard - with many many yards in many many places. Or there will be additional damage.

It seems you have been fleeced before when the equipment from your just acquired boat was stolen. So, the current issue is not the first. For whatever reason, you are a target. That is not good.

Two more aspects:
1. Get rid of one of the boats subito. There is the concept of boat husbandry, decide on one of the boats and be there for it. Otherwise, with you being a target, when you look after boat a in place 1, nasty things may happen to boat b in place 2.

2. Already mentioned by others: Consider to just end the adventure completely.

And: If your home country has diplomatic representation, talk to the diplomatic representation and seek their advice. Already tomorrow. They will know if fighting makes any sense or not. They will know if there are strings worth pulling or not. They will also know if you are in danger of coming close to the 10k solution mentioned above by others. At the moment, you have only lost a lot of money.

Thank you for the advise.

I recently sold the powerboat. For all the reasons mentioned. Took a huge loss, but it was a buy without see due to COVID situation.

End the sailing is an option. I guess once I am out of the boatyards I will put distance between me and contractors for a (long) while too.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Hesti

Some more ...

With the need to have a lot of your work done by boatyards, roughly budget for around 10 % of the price of a similar sized new boat for the upkeep for maintenance and repairs. Per year. Per boat. If you do a lot yourself, depending on your skill level, calculate your own hour at say 15 to 20 USD in the equation to get an idea how much time you need to invest to save spending money. With two 40 footers, this is a lot already. And yes, the figure 10 % can be debated, it is just for rough budgeting.

There is a nasty joke here in Germany about the German North Sea Islands: What is the easiest way to leave a North Sea Island with 1 Million? Answer: To go there with 2 Million.

Good reality check. The 10% budget is steep, but I get what you are getting at.

Lmao for the $1m joke.

Here it goes like that: How to make a small fortune out of boats? Start with a big fortune.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Make no mistake: Black people have the ability to discern a racist - even when he's tall and clothed in "friendly greetings".

I lived and worked on boats in and out of the BVIs for a little over 5 years and never experienced what you describe. In fact, we specifically went to the main yard in Roadtown to get all the varnish on a 55' Little Harbour redone because the varnishers there have one of the best reputations in the Caribbean.

The caveat was that we (crew) and captain were on the boat every day - working alongside the local yard staff. (We were installing new electronics while they were varnishing.)

The point is, the boat's crew were on the boat daily 8-5pm effectively monitoring the progress of all tasks on the boat's to-do list. We were in constant communication with the yard staff working with us, as well as daily check-ins with the Yard Manager.

LittleWing77

I guess you are jumping to conclusions; but no offence taken. It is an open forum.
50% of the contractors where white.
In Puerto Rico there are no black people.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by AiniA

My experience is only in Grenada. I do/did most of my own work but the stuff I farmed out was done well, if at times a bit slowly. I always was given estimates and the price of the job was the estimate.

Re your #8 and #7, I found the people in the yards and beyond to be agreeable and good to deal with. I did not find them to be miserable at all. I have travelled to dozens of countries by sea and by land and have found the vast majority of people to be just fine. Race or ethnicity doesn't seem to matter. You have had a bad experience, but as others have said perhaps it is time for you to think about how you interact with others before putting all the blame on them.

I heard good reports coming from doing work in the DR, Grenada, St.Maarten, Mexico even and Guatemala and Guadeloupe.
I have rigged and overalled the boat extensively.
Once this ordeal is over, I can do sailing again.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Make no mistake: Black people have the ability to discern a racist - even when he's tall and clothed in "friendly greetings".


LittleWing77

https://youtu.be/T0q2ZR4nBuE

I just had to share this. What a relief. There is help out there.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

https://youtu.be/T0q2ZR4nBuE

I just had to share this. What a relief. There is help out there.

[Tetepare]

In my observation, those who have recurring “bad luck” in developing countries are primarily responsible for their own misfortunes. Some don’t see it, some do but don’t care to adapt.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

In my observation, those who have recurring “bad luck” in developing countries are primarily responsible for their own misfortunes. Some don’t see it, some do but don’t care to adapt.

Yes, so did Livingston then.