Antagonists - or just me

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

If this is the case, that it is not just me, how do these people get by, by being the absolute worst towards people who supports their industry?

Sorry to hear about the difficult experiences.

I am going to venture a theory: that the industry that most matters to most Caribbean islands is straight-up tourism. They want people to book in advance, show up, visit the touristy places, buy stuff, and leave. A short charter fits into that category. They are perhaps less enthused by foreigners "moving in" as liveaboards, or using the islands like they would any boatyard in your home country. In other words, it sounds like they'd rather be fixing the charter boats, or the megayachts of the high-rollers, than those of DIYers and people expecting the sort of efficient service they're used to back home (? ).

My Caribbean experience is as a tourist maybe 5 times, and just one 8-day BVIs bareboat charter (which we thoroughly enjoyed). Our experiences were almost always great. But I did feel that the more we stepped off the "tourist" path, the more awkward or alien I felt. Not that people were hostile, just that it was unrealistic of us to think we, as foreigners who obviously are well-off by comparison, would be welcomed if we just "went native" without being more in tune with the locals or understanding their reality. These are mostly small islands with limited space and resources, and few industries besides tourism, and a lower overall standard of living.

I don't think this attitude is the case for all islands in paradise, or was the default throughout modern history. And certainly COVID and the travel restrictions have made the past two years more difficult for everyone... perhaps COVID is the biggest factor?

[DEAN2140]

We are chartering in St. Thomas and sailing to the Spanish VI and St. Croix. This will be my third trip to St. Croix. When I first when there in the late 70's I found the people there very unfriendly, even hostile but on my last trip three years ago the people were glad to see us and we were well treated. Perhaps they realized that no tourists means no money.

[tarian]

I think your either darn unlucky or perhaps and I do not know you so take this as a perhaps. !!! But white larger than life males with lots of money tend to have attitude issues , demand they have people look up to them and push their weight cash around, and by doing so get a reputation of being a noob
I have read and seen to much especially a generational white man attitude ,. And their so called right to visit third world countries and demand services and lording it over the locals
As for the BVI who have all the rights of a Brittish citizen but we in the UK do not have the same for the BVI this also applies to the channel Islands and all overseas territories of the UK such is life
Like. Said perhaps you are not this person , but if **** is following you like flies , them one has to consider looking at oneself ,.
I recommend a technique called a 360 analysis of oneself , go away and ask friends and family to list your good points and bad points and hold no barriers , it is very humbling experience
I have Asperger's, and PDA an d am constantly looking at my behaviours, and communication techniques, to be able to fit into what you call normal ,.
I can come across blunt, rude, unsympathetic, luckily I have an angel of a wife who corrects me constantly , perhaps that is what you are missing , a guiding light to travel through the pitfalls of social , racial, inequality and how we can be humble and sympathetic when dealing with these issues
Just a though , and if you do not recognise any of these traits I have pointed out then I offer my apologies,

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue Water

Gerrit, I have to ask because I'm amazed, what persuaded you to take on the monumental task of purchasing and refitting two boats?

You're welcome to ask.
I was going for the Catamaran that was on land in fully intact. But the deal with insurer in France did not seem to materialise.

I then thought reviving a dead boat from the water would be my good deed and for the satisfaction. A week after I bought the Power boat, the deal for the Cat came through.

In the week that news got around I bought the boat, after it had been in the bushes for 1½ years, a salvage company went and stripped the boat of everything except the mast and engines.

Overnight the boat in perfect condition, turned to a boat that cost me $95,000 in replacing the stolen items. The boat is worth more than that, but I was not budgeting of the added expense.

I knew who stripped the boat, but had no evidence.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

1. Two sides to every story

2. Always get an estimate in writing

3. Sucker born every minute

4. $10k can disappear somebody. Sounds like someone needs disappearing

5. Foreigners don’t win against locals in court. Period. See #4

Two sides there is. I hope to hear from others to fill me in.

Maybe it is me, but have over 3 years not succeeded in getting a quote out of any, except Doyle sails, who quoted me $2,000 but ended up being charged $4,900. They said a quote is just a quote.

Point 4 is a scare reading it.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by tarian

I think your either darn unlucky or perhaps and I do not know you so take this as a perhaps. !!! But white larger than life males with lots of money tend to have attitude issues , demand they have people look up to them and push their weight cash around, and by doing so get a reputation of being a noob
I have read and seen to much especially a generational white man attitude ,. And their so called right to visit third world countries and demand services and lording it over the locals
As for the BVI who have all the rights of a Brittish citizen but we in the UK do not have the same for the BVI this also applies to the channel Islands and all overseas territories of the UK such is life
Like. Said perhaps you are not this person , but if **** is following you like flies , them one has to consider looking at oneself ,.
I recommend a technique called a 360 analysis of oneself , go away and ask friends and family to list your good points and bad points and hold no barriers , it is very humbling experience
I have Asperger's, and PDA an d am constantly looking at my behaviours, and communication techniques, to be able to fit into what you call normal ,.
I can come across blunt, rude, unsympathetic, luckily I have an angel of a wife who corrects me constantly , perhaps that is what you are missing , a guiding light to travel through the pitfalls of social , racial, inequality and how we can be humble and sympathetic when dealing with these issues
Just a though , and if you do not recognise any of these traits I have pointed out then I offer my apologies,

"Just a though , and if you do not recognise any of these traits I"...

In asking for help, it does include brutal honest replies. Over these years, I have reevaluate myself and I am triple careful. Maybe I just portrait something they feel offended of.

Then it is just me and I have to work on that. My height does offend other men.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

We are chartering in St. Thomas and sailing to the Spanish VI and St. Croix. This will be my third trip to St. Croix. When I first when there in the late 70's I found the people there very unfriendly, even hostile but on my last trip three years ago the people were glad to see us and we were well treated. Perhaps they realized that no tourists means no money.

Same here, two different experiences.
I was later told Frederiksted side of the island was the black side. It is also the side where two men went on a rampage and fired some twelve shots in their party at each other, injuring many. That was right in front of our anchorage.
The Christiansted side, friendly, open, inviting and they have the spectacular buck Island reserve. Wonderful snorkling experience.

[Dooglas]

Two things stand out to me in your tale of woe.

First - sounds like your expectations of the situation and that of the locals are very different. We are talking about their island.

Second - you took on a project others advised you to avoid, and it turned out they were right. You have wasted a great deal of money and time that could have been far better spent.

Reminds me of a saying I've always thought contained more than a little wisdom. "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

So, learned anything yet?

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

Two things stand out to me in your tale of woe.

First - sounds like your expectations of the situation and that of the locals are very different. We are talking about their island.

Second - you took on a project others advised you to avoid, and it turned out they were right. You have wasted a great deal of money and time that could have been far better spent.

Reminds me of a saying I've always thought contained more than a little wisdom. "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement."

So, learned anything yet?

Learned so far:

1. Think it five times over before you repair a salvaged boat (in the Caribbean especially). It can be done, but there is a reason why the insurance company rather paid out.

2. Don't think the $20,000 -$30,000 cost to ship the boat out of the Caribbean is too expensive.

3. Contractors are longer at doing their thing; they can smell blood and a wimp.

4. Don't think you have deeper pockets then their greed.

5. Once you are on the hard, you are under their spell.

6. If they don't give a quote, don't let them do the job. (Which means you have to take the boat out of the Caribbean)

7. Do not think that because you are friendly and greeting everyone, that they will bother to great you back - you are a foreigner and they don't want to be your friend whilst sucking the live out of you.

8. They are miserable because they are constipated in their soul; and I cannot fix that, and more money won't fix it either.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Hesti

Sounds like you are being fleeced. Perhaps by a well set up fleecing machine. Do you have a chance to talk to diplomatic representation of your home country and ask for advice?

Beyond that - how about paying up and getting the hell out of the place? In case you are dealing with a well set up fleecing machine, the fleecing may not stop as long as there is still something to be gotten from you. Your boat may deteriorate while not in use in more ways than one which could make further work necessary, ... Chances are, that a court ruling may not be black/white but in between, so, do not count on paying only 12 k instead of 52 k.

Next beyond that - you have to rely on others for help. Which makes you very vulnerable. Try to improve your own repair skills to be less dependant.

Next beyond that - start to go by recommendations from other cruisers. It might help in avoiding bad places.

Over and above that I don't have $40,000 ($52000 -$12000pd) in cash, I am tired of being everybody's fool. I am now fighting back. I am standing up for my principles and justice for other. The plaintiff, I think, was hoping that I would rather pay, as he sued and attached my boat on the day prior to my splash. He was waiting until the very last moment before serving me.
I am fighting back, because I cannot see how he is going to prove his case.

Improve my skills I did.
I do many things now, from plumbing, basic electrical, basic engine repairs, but rigging, sails, spray painting, was and still is beyond my skill level and I don't want to practice on my boat those things

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by Hesti

A recommendation from my better half: Finland. Happiest people on earth, good boat yards and very very very correct on business. Not cheap, but very very very correct.

I would add all of Scandinavia and also Estonia. Thousands of islands, mobile phones tend to work everywhere, ... Only issue is the winter.

Caribbean not cheap either, especially the popular ones, where there are 600 $1m Boston Whalers boats in a marina, whilst the average income is $21,000...can't figure that one out yet.

But, you are correct. Above a certain latitude, skin tone changes, ethics change and principles prevail. I sold my soul chasing year-round warm climate and warm seas.

I wish I could spend time in the northern latitudes.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by kazo

it was first published in 1965, wondering of its relevancy today for a visiting sailor..

Have you read it?

I haven't sailed down there yet, but I've flown down there in my little puddle jumper many times. I'd say its pretty spot on.

Its a good read, so give it a try.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by kazo

it was first published in 1965, wondering of its relevancy today for a visiting sailor..

The forums are repleted with the happy sailing stories in the region, although admittedly the OP experience is more of a business going wrong.

Yes , it is relevant, and I am a long time resident. Used to be required reading if you moved to the Caribbean, and still should be.

[goboatingnow]

My experiences in the Caribbean have lead me to view it as mainly a first world tourism project bolted into a third world country. In many of those countries go outside the carefully controlled tourist areas and its abject poverty** . This brings resentment , personally I don’t go there anymore , I want to vacation in places where the locals eat and drink in the same restaurants as me.

** This was very noticeable in Barbados , Antigua, USVI and BVI , less so in the French islands.

[Wayne hoath]

Originally Posted by Gerrit Coetzee

Over and above that I don't have $40,000 ($52000 -$12000pd) in cash, I am tired of being everybody's fool. I am now fighting back. I am standing up for my principles and justice for other. The plaintiff, I think, was hoping that I would rather pay, as he sued and attached my boat on the day prior to my splash. He was waiting until the very last moment before serving me.

I am fighting back, because I cannot see how he is going to prove his case.



Improve my skills I did.

I do many things now, from plumbing, basic electrical, basic engine repairs, but rigging, sails, spray painting, was and still is beyond my skill level and I don't want to practice on my boat those things

If these experiences were mine I would hope I could step back and realise that life is too short to continue. Sell both boats (it doesn’t sound like you can afford to continue), forget the whole sorry affair and get on with the rest of your life. It will all make a great story in a few years time when you can laugh about it. All the best.