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svtickles · 07-02-2023, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

To the OP,
[LIST][*]If you signed the contract with the wording in post # 26, you're stuck with it, whether you read the contract or not.[*] Personally, I would never sign a contract like that. No way, no where.[*] If there are issues brought up by the surveyor that are significant, and I wish to negotiate a reduction in price, I would provide the seller with a copy of the relevant (discrepancies) portion of the survey, but NOT the entire survey.

I didn't expect to have issues as the seller is from the top of British society and the boat looked exceptional on the pictures. The broker is part of a large European network...

Once we lost interest (we were advised not to buy by 3 owners), we weren't interested in negotiating anymore. But you've given good advice for others and myself on future boat purchases!

BoatBumm · 10-02-2023, 06:43

Years ago I was selling a sailboat. After the prospective buyer had a survey done he backed out. Supposedly because of the survey results, but from an overheard conversation between the buyer and his wife I’m pretty sure that it was her saying Hell No about his buying any expensive boat, not just mine. I asked for a copy of the problem list, and indeed there were a few things on the list I didn’t know about. Nothing terribly major. I got those attended to, and the boat passed the next survey with flying colors and sold quickly . I recognize the buyer had no obligation to give me the list, but I appreciated it.

Happ · 10-02-2023, 06:53

The survey is yours. You have a right to reject a boat based on your opinion of the condition of the boat. Period.

As to the sails, that’s the owners problem. Most contracts allow a Sea Trial. Therefore it is incumbent on the owner to make the boat available for such. If the owner asked the broker to do it or the broker offered it is their problem. He just wants money for his effort to sell a boat that failed. They get paid when the boat is sold.

SuW · 10-02-2023, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by svtickles

I didn't expect to have issues as the seller is from the top of British society...

Oh man. If I told you that the boat was being sold by a mafia don, would that make it a better or worse deal?

**Madehn** · 10-02-2023, 07:22

the bucks for the sails-- oh hell no- tell the broker to pound sand on that one
Survey-- give them a copy of the survey-- why not, it is not like it has any intrinsic value to you, you are not buying the boat, it has served its purpose to you- it is now worth exactly 0 to you and may help out the seller-- seems like it would be a nice thing to do and really doesn't cost you anything -- what am i missing?

"seller is from the top of British society"--SERIOUSLY!- I didn't realize that wealth equated to morals-- really common and really strange attitude.

OneBoatman · 10-02-2023, 07:35

While I do believe it is the surveyor's responsibility to return each vessel to the as found condition, this would be where the conversation needs to go. I also would consider asking the broker if expecting their customers to subsidize their incidentals has mostly helped them bring in new clients or do they feel it has mostly hurt their reputation as a broker. Someone has to put the boat back to the as found condition. I have never heard of a broker challenging the buyer for this, but in their defense two things come to mind; one, it generally is not their boat, and two, the surveyor should have left the boat as found. That said there are plenty of brokers out there constantly testing their imagination to grab an extra piece. On the principles of doing battle, once the air is clear, I would probably avoid looking at other boats they represent.

CaptFrankM · 10-02-2023, 07:56

Recently, I sold my boat - a 45-foot ketch that I had lived aboard for more than a decade. When it was up for sale, it was on the hard in the yard. The sails had been removed and stored below. This was a requirement from the yard for large boats on jack stands (a reasonable precaution).

The contract I had with the third brokerage included language very similar to that of the OP's contract - that the Buyer would pay for all costs associated with the survey, including returning it to the identical condition that the boat had been in before the survey. My only cost was for the fuel for the survey.

So, when I finally had a buyer interested enough to go to the survey, I made sure that the buyer's agent understood that the cost of bending on the sails and removing them again was part of the cost of the survey. Whether the buyer decided to go ahead with the sale or not, those costs were hers. I informed the yard of the same thing and made sure they had the buyer's and the buyer's agent's contact information, in order to get written authorization from them to do the work.

Could I have put the sails on myself and taken them back off again? Maybe - but that would have required me to coordinate with the yard to do it after the boat was in the water but before the surveyor and the buyer showed up - and then to remove them after the team left but before the yard was ready to rehaul the boat. It was much simpler for me to have the yard do it as a single evolution.

I hear what the OP is saying - "we only used the sails for a few hours." Should OP have to pay to put the sails away? Seems like that's what the contract says. Clean the sails? Well, if the sails were cleaned before being stowed initially, then, well, yeah - back to pre-survey conditions would seem to mean freshly cleaned.

skipgundlach · 10-02-2023, 07:59

My apologies if this is a duplication; too many replies and no current value to me as I'm not about to buy another boat, but:

Buyer put up a 10% deposit, which was cashed, if it's like any other pre-survey contract I've ever seen.

Broker can, perhaps, retain that portion at issue; that's a hazard to the prospective buyer.

Agreed, however, if that's not in the contract, that it's not the responsibility of payment by the prospect. Whether or not the agent did the make-available of the sails, it makes sense that whomever it was should be the one to put them back, and at the cost of the seller, if not otherwise contractually specified.

OTOH, if it was a requirement of the surveyor, contract or not, it should be part of the survey cost, which reasonably should include restoration to wherever they came from...

YMMV but that's my tuppence.

Stewie12 · 10-02-2023, 09:13

Read the contract. If these costs are not in there, then do not pay. If they are then you have to pay. It is as simple as that. Read the contract carefully

BBill · 10-02-2023, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewie12

Read the contract. If these costs are not in there, then do not pay. If they are then you have to pay. It is as simple as that. Read the contract carefully

Exactly that.

I may have missed it but I don't see the buyer having discretion to reject the purchase regardless of survey findings. So it could be argued that you are bound to purchase IF the seller reduces the price or pays for noted repairs. The contract definitely favors the seller, which is normal in the contract world.

I would pay the $100 and get a release from the seller for any future contract obligations. I would never sign a contract like that but thats a mute point...as is its not the normal that most of us have seen.

What country or state is this boat being sold in?