 |
|
31-01-2023, 13:41
|
#1
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: EU
Boat: Jeanneau 45
Posts: 81
|
Post survey & rejection: charges!!
We completed a survey on a vessel and decided to reject it based on the findings. At the time we signed the purchase agreement using the mobile phone, we did not realise that the agent can demand a copy of the survey. I wasn't planning on sharing it for free, but whatever: take it!
However, the agent now wants to charge us for a service to remove the sails, cleaning, etc. for storage. Seems rather petty and inappropriate considering: 1. Sails a part of the boat inventory and must be available for inspection;
2. It was sunny, not windy, the sails didn't get any salt spray so they weren't dirty;
3. The next buyer is going to want to see them on the boat;
4. We were not informed in advance of this cost (which doesn't feel like a cost to me: the agent brought the sails from storage and hoisted them);
5. They got the survey which cost over $2k for free! Is it appropriate for them to charge this? Since they have my deposit, I don't have any control...
I'm still waiting for the invoice, but the agent mumbled something about $100.
|
|
|
31-01-2023, 13:55
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 2,244
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
SVtickles all the surveys I have done remain the property of the buyer. Like you said, you paid 2k for it. What you could have done was just forwarded the pages with all the faults listed. I have done that for clients before.
Forget paying for the sails, that's a 100% BS and I have never heard of it after doing thousands of surveys.
Cheers
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 07:26
|
#3
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,967
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Just going to "ditto" what Fore and Aft said.
That said, it really depends on what your contract says. You need to read it. Word for word. All the way through. That will tell you if you are obligated to pay for these things or not.
Good luck.
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 07:46
|
#4
|
registered user
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: in Queensland for a while
Boat: plastic production boat, suitable for deep blue water ;)
Posts: 971
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Ditto and ditto for the above 2 replies.
The purchase contract may tell you if the agent or seller can charge you for some cost of the survey.
As far as the survey, you (the seller) pays for it. So you decide who you give copy to. I must say, purchase contracts often ask for a solid reason why you want to get out and your deposit back. The list of deficits or a survey summary should suffice.
And even if you were to give the broker a copy, would one, as the next prospective buyer, give much credence to a survey commissioned by an unknown party, maybe with unknown instructions?
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 08:10
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 207
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by svtickles
[...] At the time we signed the purchase agreement using the mobile phone, we did not realise that the agent can demand a copy of the survey.
|
The agreement you signed is what governs. Nobody here, not having read the agreement, can give you meaningful advice.
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 08:12
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2018
Boat: Voyage 430
Posts: 398
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisOwens
The agreement you signed is what governs. Nobody here, not having read the agreement, can give you meaningful advice.
|
I agree, however, I will say this.
If there is a seller/broker out there putting that type of non-standard stuff into contracts, they should be called out. That is
just dirty and cheap and it shouldn't be done. Shame on them.
Also, if they're going to do it, they should verbally say so since this is NOT normal.
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 08:26
|
#7
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 447
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisOwens
The agreement you signed is what governs. Nobody here, not having read the agreement, can give you meaningful advice.
|
Two agreements were signed; one for the purchase of the vessel, and one for the survey.
As noted, not seeing the agreements we can't make specific comment, but nearly universally the survey agreements I have signed say the survey document belongs to the surveyor and is provided only to the paying client, and that client is not allowed to distribute the document, that capability resides with the surveyor.
If that's the case the agreements would be in conflict. Need to look at the whole picture.
If the agent didn't tell you about cost of something on their side related to the survey then tell them to go pound sand.
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 08:34
|
#8
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 3,788
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
I've never seen a purchase agreement that made the buyer responsible for the seller's costs of returning the boat to storage following a survey or sea trial.
I don't think that any of the various national brokerage associations would allow their brokers to do that.
If it's $100 it's not worth fighting over.
__________________
The difference between plans and dreams is that plans acknowledge the existence of inconvenient facts
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 09:52
|
#9
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 91
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Ah yes, another example of the "value" of a broker.
Nothing slippery here!
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 10:47
|
#10
|
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 6,306
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by svtickles
We completed a survey on a vessel and decided to reject it based on the findings. At the time we signed the purchase agreement using the mobile phone, we did not realise that the agent can demand a copy of the survey. I wasn't planning on sharing it for free, but whatever: take it!
However, the agent now wants to charge us for a service to remove the sails, cleaning, etc. for storage. Seems rather petty and inappropriate considering: 1. Sails a part of the boat inventory and must be available for inspection;
2. It was sunny, not windy, the sails didn't get any salt spray so they weren't dirty;
3. The next buyer is going to want to see them on the boat;
4. We were not informed in advance of this cost (which doesn't feel like a cost to me: the agent brought the sails from storage and hoisted them);
5. They got the survey which cost over $2k for free! Is it appropriate for them to charge this? Since they have my deposit, I don't have any control...
I'm still waiting for the invoice, but the agent mumbled something about $100.
|
Been a surveyor for 3 decades ... You are being taken for a ride.
The survey belongs to you and only you, you paid for it ... sell it to him.
The cost of preparing the boat for survey is on the seller ... period !
You pay for haulout for the survey and power wash if required. Thats it !
Help protect others ... Name the broker.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
|
|
|
02-02-2023, 10:52
|
#11
|
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 6,306
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HankOnthewater
Ditto and ditto for the above 2 replies.
The purchase contract may tell you if the agent or seller can charge you for some cost of the survey.
As far as the survey, you (the seller) pays for it. So you decide who you give copy to. I must say, purchase contracts often ask for a solid reason why you want to get out and your deposit back. The list of deficits or a survey summary should suffice.
And even if you were to give the broker a copy, would one, as the next prospective buyer, give much credence to a survey commissioned by an unknown party, maybe with unknown instructions?
|
thousands of surveys and I've seen it happen quite a few times ... dumb !
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
|
|
|
03-02-2023, 10:19
|
#12
|
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in Northern California working on the Ranch
Boat: Pearson 365 Sloop and 14ft.Whitehall pulling skiff.
Posts: 10,261
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Totally agree with all the above. Just done pay. I doubt anything will come of it. If it wasn't in writing that you pay any fee's for sail handling then you are off the hook. I wouldn't have given them the survey report other than the highlights that you based your rejection on. Personally I would go on a site where you could leave reviews for them.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
|
|
|
03-02-2023, 10:29
|
#13
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 207
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
The survey belongs to you and only you, you paid for it ... sell it to him.
|
He may have already sold the survey to the seller or broker for $0, depending upon the details of the contract he signed.
Otherwise I agree with you that this certainly appears to be unreasonable behavior by the broker.
|
|
|
03-02-2023, 10:41
|
#14
|
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 6,306
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisOwens
He may have already sold the survey to the seller or broker for $0, depending upon the details of the contract he signed.
Otherwise I agree with you that this certainly appears to be unreasonable behavior by the broker.
|
In court many times, inequitable, one sided contravcts are over ridden. I've seen it. I would be angry enough to pursue this in small claims court.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
|
|
|
03-02-2023, 10:48
|
#15
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 207
|
Re: Post survey & rejection: charges!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker
In court many times, inequitable, one sided contravcts are over ridden. I've seen it. I would be angry enough to pursue this in small claims court.
|
I agree with you that it appears this broker is being unreasonable, but I wouldn't bet very much on a court agreeing with me if I claimed that a clause saying "In order to terminate this contract based on survey findings, you must provide those findings to the seller" was unreasonable, inequitable, or one sided.
As for the clause saying "If you request a sea trial and subsequently withdraw from the agreement, you are responsible for reasonable costs of the sea trial" -- I dunno, you're stuck arguing with a judge who knows nothing about boats or the marine trade, about what "reasonable" means. I wouldn't bet on winning that one either.
Or, as a smart lawyer once reminded me, using slightly more colorful language: "The other guy being an absolute jackass is not, unfortunately, legally actionable."
|
|
|
 |
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|