Post survey & rejection: charges!!

[svtickles]

We completed a survey on a vessel and decided to reject it based on the findings. At the time we signed the purchase agreement using the mobile phone, we did not realise that the agent can demand a copy of the survey. I wasn't planning on sharing it for free, but whatever: take it!

However, the agent now wants to charge us for a service to remove the sails, cleaning, etc. for storage. Seems rather petty and inappropriate considering:

1. Sails a part of the boat inventory and must be available for inspection;
2. It was sunny, not windy, the sails didn't get any salt spray so they weren't dirty;
3. The next buyer is going to want to see them on the boat;
4. We were not informed in advance of this cost (which doesn't feel like a cost to me: the agent brought the sails from storage and hoisted them);
5. They got the survey which cost over $2k for free!

Is it appropriate for them to charge this? Since they have my deposit, I don't have any control...

I'm still waiting for the invoice, but the agent mumbled something about $100.

[Fore and Aft]

SVtickles all the surveys I have done remain the property of the buyer. Like you said, you paid 2k for it. What you could have done was just forwarded the pages with all the faults listed. I have done that for clients before.
Forget paying for the sails, that's a 100% BS and I have never heard of it after doing thousands of surveys.
Cheers

[denverd0n]

Just going to "ditto" what Fore and Aft said.


That said, it really depends on what your contract says. You need to read it. Word for word. All the way through. That will tell you if you are obligated to pay for these things or not.


Good luck.

[HankOnthewater]

Ditto and ditto for the above 2 replies.
The purchase contract may tell you if the agent or seller can charge you for some cost of the survey.
As far as the survey, you (the seller) pays for it. So you decide who you give copy to. I must say, purchase contracts often ask for a solid reason why you want to get out and your deposit back. The list of deficits or a survey summary should suffice.

And even if you were to give the broker a copy, would one, as the next prospective buyer, give much credence to a survey commissioned by an unknown party, maybe with unknown instructions?

[ChrisOwens]

Originally Posted by svtickles

[...] At the time we signed the purchase agreement using the mobile phone, we did not realise that the agent can demand a copy of the survey.

The agreement you signed is what governs. Nobody here, not having read the agreement, can give you meaningful advice.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by ChrisOwens

The agreement you signed is what governs. Nobody here, not having read the agreement, can give you meaningful advice.

I agree, however, I will say this.


If there is a seller/broker out there putting that type of non-standard stuff into contracts, they should be called out. That is

just dirty and cheap and it shouldn't be done. Shame on them.
Also, if they're going to do it, they should verbally say so since this is NOT normal.

[HeywoodJ]

Originally Posted by ChrisOwens

The agreement you signed is what governs. Nobody here, not having read the agreement, can give you meaningful advice.

Two agreements were signed; one for the purchase of the vessel, and one for the survey.

As noted, not seeing the agreements we can't make specific comment, but nearly universally the survey agreements I have signed say the survey document belongs to the surveyor and is provided only to the paying client, and that client is not allowed to distribute the document, that capability resides with the surveyor.

If that's the case the agreements would be in conflict. Need to look at the whole picture.

If the agent didn't tell you about cost of something on their side related to the survey then tell them to go pound sand.

[Jammer]

I've never seen a purchase agreement that made the buyer responsible for the seller's costs of returning the boat to storage following a survey or sea trial.

I don't think that any of the various national brokerage associations would allow their brokers to do that.


If it's $100 it's not worth fighting over.

[JoetheCobbler]

Ah yes, another example of the "value" of a broker.
Nothing slippery here!

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by svtickles

We completed a survey on a vessel and decided to reject it based on the findings. At the time we signed the purchase agreement using the mobile phone, we did not realise that the agent can demand a copy of the survey. I wasn't planning on sharing it for free, but whatever: take it!

However, the agent now wants to charge us for a service to remove the sails, cleaning, etc. for storage. Seems rather petty and inappropriate considering:

1. Sails a part of the boat inventory and must be available for inspection;
2. It was sunny, not windy, the sails didn't get any salt spray so they weren't dirty;
3. The next buyer is going to want to see them on the boat;
4. We were not informed in advance of this cost (which doesn't feel like a cost to me: the agent brought the sails from storage and hoisted them);
5. They got the survey which cost over $2k for free!

Is it appropriate for them to charge this? Since they have my deposit, I don't have any control...

I'm still waiting for the invoice, but the agent mumbled something about $100.

Been a surveyor for 3 decades ... You are being taken for a ride.

The survey belongs to you and only you, you paid for it ... sell it to him.

The cost of preparing the boat for survey is on the seller ... period !

You pay for haulout for the survey and power wash if required. Thats it !

Help protect others ... Name the broker.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by HankOnthewater

Ditto and ditto for the above 2 replies.
The purchase contract may tell you if the agent or seller can charge you for some cost of the survey.
As far as the survey, you (the seller) pays for it. So you decide who you give copy to. I must say, purchase contracts often ask for a solid reason why you want to get out and your deposit back. The list of deficits or a survey summary should suffice.

And even if you were to give the broker a copy, would one, as the next prospective buyer, give much credence to a survey commissioned by an unknown party, maybe with unknown instructions?

thousands of surveys and I've seen it happen quite a few times ... dumb !

[Celestialsailor]

Totally agree with all the above. Just done pay. I doubt anything will come of it. If it wasn't in writing that you pay any fee's for sail handling then you are off the hook. I wouldn't have given them the survey report other than the highlights that you based your rejection on. Personally I would go on a site where you could leave reviews for them.

[ChrisOwens]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

The survey belongs to you and only you, you paid for it ... sell it to him.

He may have already sold the survey to the seller or broker for $0, depending upon the details of the contract he signed.



Otherwise I agree with you that this certainly appears to be unreasonable behavior by the broker.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by ChrisOwens

He may have already sold the survey to the seller or broker for $0, depending upon the details of the contract he signed.



Otherwise I agree with you that this certainly appears to be unreasonable behavior by the broker.

In court many times, inequitable, one sided contravcts are over ridden. I've seen it. I would be angry enough to pursue this in small claims court.

[ChrisOwens]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

In court many times, inequitable, one sided contravcts are over ridden. I've seen it. I would be angry enough to pursue this in small claims court.

I agree with you that it appears this broker is being unreasonable, but I wouldn't bet very much on a court agreeing with me if I claimed that a clause saying "In order to terminate this contract based on survey findings, you must provide those findings to the seller" was unreasonable, inequitable, or one sided.


As for the clause saying "If you request a sea trial and subsequently withdraw from the agreement, you are responsible for reasonable costs of the sea trial" -- I dunno, you're stuck arguing with a judge who knows nothing about boats or the marine trade, about what "reasonable" means. I wouldn't bet on winning that one either.



Or, as a smart lawyer once reminded me, using slightly more colorful language: "The other guy being an absolute jackass is not, unfortunately, legally actionable."