What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not?

[GordMay]

What Jgarrick said - and said very well.
Thank you for taking the time.
Gord

[hellosailor]

JG-
<<so I'll respectfully decline to be drawn into >> Hmmm. And here I thought you had raised them and I was simply responding.

"Safety" is a personal position and decision.

[Michaele]

The problem is not a moral question it is a practical question - in a real Pirate attack situation you are going to be vastly outgunned by people who have 'grown up' with military weapons, are not afraid for a moment to kill and are young enough to belive they will not die. They are really only interested in the 'loot' - financial gain not in killing people as they have already done that lots!

If you return fire then I hope you are very very good and have a big big crew.

When I was attacked by pirates in the Gulf of Aden there were 3 boats each with a crew of 5 or 6 all armed with AK's Uzi, rocket propelled grenade plus an assorment of hand guns and knives. Now whilst they were only intending robbery they open fired over my head and the boat sailing in company with me.. If I had fired back then for sure the aim would have been lowered and I would have had 15 to 18 guns from several directions shooting at me... And they all knew how to handle their weapons and from more recent reports 'killing people' was not an issue for them.... So I just hope you and your family are really numerous, have heavy machine guns and rocket propelled grenades or you are going to be seriously out gunned.. Make very certain that you kill every one of the enemy, even the wounded and sink their boats withut trace because if the authorties find you have attacked and killed 'innocent fishermen' (who also have the right to bear arms) they will put you in jail and throw away the key! Cos the local authorities almost certainly receive a 'kick back' from the pirates...

Let me just say that all the above is rubbish if you get attacked close to Somalia where they will just kill you what ever you do - having raped anybody they feel like raping - very dangerous area.

Fair winds and good hunting

Michael

[Strygaldwir]

I was/am of the opinion that to have a particular tool at hand and be able to use it for the appropriate job is always better than not having said tool and having to make due with whatever is at hand.

Having said that, I took my pistol with me to the Bahamas and Turks and Caicos. The Bahamas was no issue. Turks and Caicos required me to check the weapon in while clearing in and give them 24 hours notice when checking out so that they would be able to retrieve it from the police station. Well, this required that I stay and extra day, it also required that I check out at the same port I checked into. A significant hassle. While review further requlations for our trip down into the Caribean. I noted that Puerto Rico does not allow non Puerto Rican citizens to have weapons???? Well, does that mean I have to by-pass Puerto Rico on my way south???? Hmmmm.....

All this said and done.l I took a weapon with me this time. I will not take one with me when I do the Caribean next year. Now, if I go into the Pacific and further after that, I'll reasses that decision

Keith

Fair winds, and limited breakage!

[muskoka]

I've travelled a lot of Asian countries (Thailand, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong) and relied upon nothing more than common sense for safety. The yachting community here aren't allowed to carry guns and I've never heard of anything worse than the sort of petty theft you'd find anywhere (Though I have heard the smuggling boats blasting by at 3am whilst at anchorage - but they're not interested in me).

If you're willing to fly to a vacation destination without a gun it isn't any more dangerous to sail there. After all, you're far more likely to run into trouble on a city street than at anchorage.

Not to mention that many countries require your gun be checked in with the police - which makes having one kind of pointless anyway.

Cheers

[sneuman]

muskoka: can u email me at scott_neuman@hotmail.com

i'd be interested in talking to you for an article i am writing for bangkok-based yachting mag.

cheers,
scott

[Sandero]

I find it appalling that sailors carry weapons. I also find it appalling that someone would come on your vessel to rob it.

If you shoot to killl and succeed you are in for a big legal problem and your life could be spoiled. Look for alternate strategies to avoid situations where violence could ensue.

[jzk]

I carry a firearm on board period. If someone is going to kill me and my family, they are going to eat 30 rounds first.

However, I would highly advise against carrying firearms if you aren't willing to fire them at an attacker. Simply appearing on deck with a gun in your hand might be the quickest way to the end of your life.

Your response ought to be well thought out before hand, as decisions are hard to make under pressure.

If some vessel approaches my vessel, under suspicious circumstances, I am going to get the gun(s), find a covered position, and take firm action. Firm action could be a warning shot, specific instructions yelled to the vessel to stay away, etc. or both.

I suspect that pirates are looking for easy prey, and would be highly adverse to trying to take a vessel where some one has a gun and is in a position of cover.

[muskoka]

I share your sentiments DefJef!

Putting the politics of guns aside though, my concerns about travelling are far more mundane. Honestly, if I had to elect my top 5 worries - or dangers - about travel (based upon my experiences and what's happened to others):

1. Taxis & Public Transit - In many of the places I've travelled you're transported in vehicles with bald tires, bad brakes, no seatbelts and a Michael Shumacher wannabe. And, no traffic policing. Seriously, 3rd world taxis/buses are probably the most dangerous thing any of us will face!!

2. Environmental Thingamajigs - Jumping into the water and getting a wicked jellyfish sting (in Australia the jellyfish can be lethal). Also, malaria, typhoid and a host of nasty diseases in a tropical climate. And, you can inadvertantly eat some diabolical stuff. I know of people killed in the Asian tsunami but I don't know of anyone killed by gunfire. Nature is a fickle mistress.

3. Navigation & etc. - Hitting a reef or uncharted bit of topography that'll rip holes in your pocket book if not your boat. Or conversely, a casting flaw in our aluminium anchor roller resulted in a sheared roller casting that sawed through my anchor rode and the boat washed ashore (thankfully on a sand beach though a rough rock smashed the rudder).

4. Weather (as always) - I don't go that far afield that there's no warning of typhoons - but, they can manifest even on fairly short passages. And, even at anchor they can be dangerous. Where I moor there were about 30 boats blown off their moorings in a bad typhoon in 1999. One lovely 45' ketch ended up on the road!!

5. Culteral Unease - Which is to say, when you arrive in a new place it's sometimes hard to figure out if the attention is curiosity or malevolant. Sometimes you can misinterpret attention in the wrong way based purely upon cultural differences. It makes it hard to get your own personal 'safety radar' up and running. This one really isn't a worry but it's a reality which can stress you out!

Almost universally, people are just trying to earn an honest living. Sometimes they're more agressive than you'd like, but there you go. And occasionally, they're larcenous. But that crap happens everywhere.

To return to the thread though, I guess if anyone wants to carry a gun you should go ahead. In most parts of the world it'll be locked down or confiscated so it's pretty much useless. And in the parts of the world where your gun ain't locked down - they may be places to avoid!

It's my observation that the better travelled people are, the more they rely upon commonsense and the less they believe that any kind of force can ensure their safety. It's all a myth after all....

And, I suppose avoiding Yemen & Somalia would be a good commonsense idea!

Cheers!

[muskoka]

JZK,

It sounds like you've had an experience! What happened? and where?

Cheers!

[jzk]

Originally Posted by muskoka

JZK,

It sounds like you've had an experience! What happened? and where?

Cheers!

No, I have no experience having to use a firearm to defend myself, and I sincerely hope I never get any.

[muskoka]

JZK,

That's good!

I don't think you'll ever need one for pirates, but it would be very useful to make the taxi/minibus driver proceed sensibly! Seriously, that is the most dangerous aspect of 3rd world travel!

Truthfully, the fishing guys come up and hassle us for water, beer & fags (cigarettes). I'll give them water & beer (1 per crew) and only fags if I get some of their catch! They're quite bold, and rough as ****, but all in all very good natured.

The reality is that a boat of 5 fishermen make US$40. or so per day (and they have to run their boat). They're law abiding, but they like to try and cadge a beer & smoke. They wouldn't even know what to do with a sailboat if it ever crossed their mind to hijack it!!

They're doing what I'm doing. They're doing what you're doing. They're trying to make ends meet!!

Cheers!

[sneuman]

Living in Bangkok (and having lived in Hong Kong), I have to agree with Muskoka.

I think it's amazing how different are the perceptions out here as opposed to the U.S.

As a journalist, I can add one rule of thumb that has worked well for me:

It's never as bad as it looks on TV

[Alan Wheeler]

Yeah I agree with that statement. There are some journalists that have a lot to answer for when it comes to news reporting of current events, especially if a "military action" is involved.

[uncle_fred]

Originally Posted by Cool Change

I have a Military background, I am trained in the proper use of Firearms. Would I carry a weapon on my boat? You bet, would I use it? if I felt my life or that of my crew were at risk, you bet.
I also believe a flare gun is an exellent weapon, most if not all of us, have one on board, thus negating the need for anything heavier.
One caveat, Make sure to comply with rules and regulations concerning firearms aboard when in foreign countries, always declare whatever weapons you carry on board, including all ammunition.

me to being an older military man and i would have one on the boat especially when sailing alone