What's Your Opinion? Firearms or Not?

[CaptainK]

Yes Knotty.

It could allow that possibility to happen?

Unless you're carrying a real gun in the first place. You could fire right back!!

[CaptainK]

knottybuoyz once whispered in the wind
If you're sailing and you're packing a gun CaptainK, just let me know where you are so I can stay as far away from you as possible.

You sounded like either you're making me look like the pirates. Or I frightened you there Rick?

You don't have to worry Rick. Cause, I wouldn't be sailing around your neck of the woods.

But if I decide to sail into your neck of the woods. Then I wouldn't be carrying any firearms!! Cause, I really respect the Canadian people.

But if I was sailing somewhere else. Say the "Middle East". And the pirate/terrorists infected parts of the world. Then that's what I was trying to say, Rick!! Other parts of the world. I would carry a handgun.

Do "you" understand me now?

[CaptainK]

knottybuoyz once whispered in the wind
I, for one, have no desire to tempt fate, eventually my number's gonna come up and fate will collect its dues. No, I'm not a chicken, wimp or pacifist, just willing to live out the rest of my life to the best of my abilities, within my limits and not go out of my way to find trouble.

I can agree with how you feel. Especially if you have family. Like children on board and such. It's also your point of view of choice. And that's your right!!

"To live life without risk, is to miss the point of living." Malcome (sp) Forbes said that and I agree. I'm not gonna let some freak show determine whare I can or can't go. If I the skipper say the best way to go around the world is via the Suez (and almost all skippers do) then I will go that way. It was Steven Decatur that fought the muslim pirates "to the shores of Tripoli" on the barbary coast around 1814. He did it "for sailors rights." Seems the muslim pirates were boarding vessels, robbing them and torturing to death any captives who refused to convert to islam. (Any of this sounding familiar yet?) But a yankee marine straightened the bastards out and he didn't do it by sweet talk. The crew of SY "Mahdi" straightened out a few mongrels last year off Yemen with a shot gun. The Seven Seas Crusing Ass. gave them an award for it and I second the motion. I would have a nice little 50 calibre on the bow if I could but the 35 cal marlin will have to do. Stay safe?? then Stay at home.

Me?? I would rather see the world and go where the bad dogs go because I am confident I can take care of myself.

Cheers

[Alan Wheeler]

Bob, you have just opened up a very interesing question. Why is it that everyone hightails it through the Suez and not around Africa. There must be so much to see going the other way. When we finaly get on our voyage, I want to go around the bottom of Africa. Unless anyone can convince me otherwise.

For one, there are vicious seas off the southeast coast. I don't remember the name of the south setting current but the winds are often in opposition and the seas stand up very tall. Large ships can be swamped in it. There is a famous Australian vessel that was lost there. Simply overwelhemed by waves over 100 feet. Not saying it can't be done of course but reputations.... Also, the med is a destination for most circumnavigators, especially (I hear) Turkey. Cheap, interesting, relitively freindly..etc. Also they call the coast of Namibia the "skeleton Coast" for a reason... barren dangerous shoals.... The sailors I know that have done the southern route (I am NOT speaking of personal experience here) stand well off from land most of the time and expect hard going.

To clarify a point above... I think it must be the choice of the skipper on weapons aboard. I believe in self reliance. I believe a skipper going into a dangerous situation (and they are not always avoidable in a long cruise)should be allowed the assets he desires. Conversely, I think it's very wrong for someone not to prepare and thus be a burden on another for their protection. The great virtue/attraction for me in cruising is independence.... I LIKE IT!

I just went and googled east africa ocean current and here is what I got amd why sailors go through the suez..


In order to sail the South Atlantic and round the tip of Africa, Portuguese sailors had to confront two powerful ocean flows: the Agulhas and Benguela currents.
The warm Agulhas runs south and west from the Indian Ocean pushing against the near-freezing waters of Antarctica, before meeting the cold Benguela current off the Cape of Good Hope.
The second swiftest current in all the world's oceans, the Agulhas is deadlier than the swiftest current (the Gulf Stream) for two reasons. First one of its branches surges through a narrow passageway between Madagascar and Mozambique on the east coast of South Africa (downward arrow on map). Furthermore its waters rush from north to south--the opposite direction from which Portuguese ships needed to travel in order to round the tip of Africa.
In nearly a thousand years of crossing the Indian Ocean, neither the Arabs nor Persians nor Arabs nor the fifteenth-century Chinese Star Fleet had ever navigated the Mozambique channel, even sailing with the the Agulhas Current.

To sail against the Agulhas Current is even tricker than sailing with it. The only Only a very narrow band of water northward through the current (up the east coast of Africa to reach the Indian Ocean) boats had to tack back and forth in a very narrow band of water--in which submerged sharp rocks abound--and modern shipping trawlers with sophisticated navigational instruments still wreck themselves today.The picture on the right >> shows the rocks at the southern tip of Africa today with the Agulhas current just beyond.
Winds Gale force winds (up to 180 kilometers per hour) are common in the Spring (September through November). Even more frightening are the deadly changes that occur when the winds shift direction. When the winds begin to blow from the West and Southwest (the opposite direction from the current), monster waves (up to five stories high) are known to occur. There is no way to survive such rogue wages, for even the largest vessels plummet to the ocean floor without a trace.

Cheers

[CaptainK]

Found this on Cruising World. It's called the Pirate's Plague.

http://www.captainforhire.com/products.htm

Looks like a clever gadget.. pity about the shipping restrictions.

Thanks for the tip K

Cheers

[coot]

Originally Posted by CaptainK

Found this on Cruising World. It's called the Pirate's Plague.

http://www.captainforhire.com/products.htm

I saw that ad too. I notice their claim that

This adapter is not a firearm, it is legal to possess all over the world.

hmm... A device that is intended to fire bullets is not a firearm? I wouldn't want to test that claim in a foreign court that has "zero tolerance" for illegal firearms and a perception that Americans are gun-crazy.

[Alan Wheeler]

Yes that is totally incorrect. There has been a big article on that thing in one of the boat mags. I only get Practicle Boater and Lat&Atts, so it must be in one of those past issues. It is considered a firearm and it is illegal to have if you don't do or have all the proper legal requirements for the countries you go to.
I do like the pepper 12guage though.

[GordMay]

Flare gun inserts have been around for quite a long time (at least 20 years that I know of). I presume their prime attraction, lays in the ability to easily hide them (from authorities) in a manner that conceals their true nature - say in a parts bin or tool box.
Of course, this same feature will be less desirable in a rapidly developing “situation”. I suppose you could conceal it, when clearing in, then place it with (not 'in') the flare gun after you’ve been ‘inspected’.

[Boracay]

The authorities would probably take a very dim view of the use of an illegal adaptor, particularly if someone is injured or killed.
If there is a problem and it seems that a flare gun is needed to get assistance why not use it as a flare gun?
One would need to be very careful though as accidents easily happen in a confined space on a boat and a flare gun could to a lot of damage at close range. Burns and eye damage might occur as could other injuries.
This might not be covered by insurance.
Accidents could be minimised by proper training and making sure the gun could be loaded properly and rapidly under adverse circumstances. My experience has been that a gun is most dangerous to its owner.
I believe that drills are conducted from time to time when flares are fired so it might be a good idea to involve oneself if a flare gun is to be carried.

[CaptainK]

Chris31415 once whispered in the wind
Accidents could be minimised by proper training and making sure the gun could be loaded properly and rapidly under adverse circumstances. My experience has been that a gun is most dangerous to its owner.
I believe that drills are conducted from time to time when flares are fired so it might be a good idea to involve oneself if a flare gun is to be carried.

If I'm reading this correctly. If you're a bad shot with a gun. I'd suggest that you need to go on a shooting range. And go target practicing.

When my cousin served in the Army. He told me that if one of their guys was shooting badly. And couldn't hit the paper target on the range. That man would stay there, til he got it right. And even then, he had to continue that performance in the eyes of the sargent. And in front of the LT.

Just practice. Practice makes perfect. I was in the US Navy. And I got my qualifications on pistols and rifles.

Hey. If I can do it!! You can do it?

[Alan Wheeler]

If it comes to a crunch, just use a para flare. Aim it and strike. I would not like to be on the recieving end of one of those from close quarters. It doesn't have to be too accurate, all you have to do is get in their boat. The thing burns so hot and bright, it would distract the Pirates and set fire tot eh boat very quickly.
The prar flares go off with a heck of a noise and travel so fast and reasonably straight line.

[Boracay]

I'd only carry a firearm if I was seriously worried about the safety of myself and those I am responsible for. This is not likely to happen in the foreseeable future.
I'd only use a firearm if I were desperate. That is, cornered and in extreme danger with no means of escape.
However I like to keep in touch with all methods of maintaining security.
Using a firearm is right at the bottom of the list in terms of actions I'd take.