Piracy :-/

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Peace, brotherhood, and love to all.

I'll second that... just stop waving the gun when you say it...

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

We just post the guard-pussy on deck.

"Alright, everyone STEP BACK AWAY FROM THE LITTLE FRISKIES, and nobody gets hurt!"

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Although I tend to stay out of these types of threads, I find that I must disagree to the emphasised part of your post.

The decision to carry firearm is not in the first instance, an individual choice, rather it is a societal / legal right or prohibition as the case may be. Only where permitted by law to carry, does the individual have a choice.

We always have a choice. Some choices can have extreme consequences. And, the choice to carry, or not carry, a firearm, can both result in extreme consequences, depending on the particular circumstances you find yourself in.

To say that carrying a firearm as a cruiser, is easy and never results in problems is not true.

But, to say that no cruiser has ever been in a situation where a firearm could have saved a lost life, is equally false.

But, the idea of having a firearm, with no training or experience, as making you ready to repel a deadly attack, is about as valid as the notion that buying a really nice set of tools, with no training or experience, makes you read to rebuild a diesel engine.

[zeehag]

we all have choices.
the only place we have the alleged RIGHT to carry firearms in as a citizen of usa within the boundaries of the usa. we have no RIGHT to bear arms outside our own nation. our constitution only covers us while inside usa ..... so many forget this lil issue.

we do have the right to choose to lose our boats to impound anywhere else we choose to carry arms...

enjoy your cruising life.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by zeehag

we all have choices.
the only place we have the alleged RIGHT to carry firearms in as a citizen of usa within the boundaries of the usa. we have no RIGHT to bear arms outside our own nation. our constitution only covers us while inside usa ..... so many forget this lil issue.

we do have the right to choose to lose our boats to impound anywhere else we choose to carry arms...

enjoy your cruising life.

I have had many friends lose fortunes and get them back. But, I also had a friend murdered for the money in his wallet (and he was one who whole heartedly believed that firearms were of no use to him). He didn't get his life back. I don't criticize anyone else's choices as they are the ones who have to live (or not live) with the consequences of them.

Self defense of life, is one of the most personal decisions a person can make. I know people who say they would rather die than hurt another person who was trying to kill them. I respect that choice, even as I don't understand it.

[micah719]

In some of the less civilised places, an AK and food for it are cheap as chips.....no great loss when it gets dumped on the border to civilisation.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Group9

But, the idea of having a firearm, with no training or experience, as making you ready to repel a deadly attack, is about as valid as the notion that buying a really nice set of tools, with no training or experience, makes you read to rebuild a diesel engine.

Who said that? I never heard any pro-guns CF member say that you don't need to be trained and experienced with their use. It is remarks like above that make reasonable discussion on the subject impossible.

Legal? It is legal to carry on the high seas. In 99% or more of the nations, nothing happens to you when you declare a gun during entry. It is easy when you are honest, difficult and with risk when you lie about it.

[GrowleyMonster]

Quite right. A firearm on board can be a problem but usually isn't, if it is declared. OTOH being dead is certainly a problem.

carried by 6, or tried by 12? both options suck but one sucks a little more than the other. Hope I never have to shoot anyone but I will do what I got to do when I got to do it, if I am able.

[tightgroup]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Although I tend to stay out of these types of threads, I find that I must disagree to the emphasised part of your post.

The decision to carry firearm is not in the first instance, an individual choice, rather it is a societal / legal right or prohibition as the case may be. Only where permitted by law to carry, does the individual have a choice.

Quite wrong, an individual has the choice to break the law, ask any criminal
Mine is not to judge one's choice legal or not.. I have a choice to protect myself from within or outside the law.. That is MY choice no else. I am sure we are all pure as the driven snow....

[tightgroup]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Well, of course the rest of civilization is the judge and jury.

People dont live in isolation.

No one does.

Please explain your rationale as to isolation and one submitting to social order. Am I to assume that we are no longer able or capable of exercising free will, even though it may cut against the grain ? Do we no longer think for ourselves and leave cognitive challenges to the community ?

Anyone can defend themselves in the manner they wish with whatever they wish. If it does not meet local laws then its the choice they take. Nor is it up to us to pass judgement on their behavior.

[s/v Jedi]

On CF, we can't fight pirates with guns. We have to throw flowers, surrender and offer our throats for the cutting and our wives for the raping.

Same as with freezers or even fridges: can't have those, not manly enough because we can just eat cold beans straight from cans, which we open with our military issue can opener which is better than anything else.

Or same as Bruce anchors, washing machines, watermakers, diesel gensets, water heaters, breadmakers, computers, satphones, hifi gear, RIBs, 2-stroke outboards etc. etc. Can't have all those, not roughing it enough with all that.

So here's me, I have all the above. With my gun, I hope I saved lives when I was serving my country and sure will shoot the bastards that want to cut and rape. With my freezers and fridges I helped out those without food (without fridges and freezers) after the hurricane, in which my 176lb Bruce kept Jedi safe in 120 knot winds, after which dinghies lined up at our stern to get some water from our watermaker as they didn't have one, while the trusty Northern Lights genset was running the show, waterheater and washing machine for washing clothes of those who only had their muddy, salty & bloody clothes left, people lining up to use our satphone to let their families know they survived the storm (and Inmarsat let us call for free all week!); our fast rib that could transport heaps of food helped to distribute that over the anchorages and I can go on for ages.

Sometimes, when the sh%t hits the fan, it's pretty nice when some cruisers have all that stuff. But here on CF is not that time

[downunder]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

On CF, we can't fight pirates with guns. We have to throw flowers, surrender and offer our throats for the cutting and our wives for the raping.

Same as with freezers or even fridges: can't have those, not manly enough because we can just eat cold beans straight from cans, which we open with our military issue can opener which is better than anything else.

Or same as Bruce anchors, washing machines, watermakers, diesel gensets, water heaters, breadmakers, computers, satphones, hifi gear, RIBs, 2-stroke outboards etc. etc. Can't have all those, not roughing it enough with all that.

So here's me, I have all the above. With my gun, I hope I saved lives when I was serving my country and sure will shoot the bastards that want to cut and rape. With my freezers and fridges I helped out those without food (without fridges and freezers) after the hurricane, in which my 176lb Bruce kept Jedi safe in 120 knot winds, after which dinghies lined up at our stern to get some water from our watermaker as they didn't have one, while the trusty Northern Lights genset was running the show, waterheater and washing machine for washing clothes of those who only had their muddy, salty & bloody clothes left, people lining up to use our satphone to let their families know they survived the storm (and Inmarsat let us call for free all week!); our fast rib that could transport heaps of food helped to distribute that over the anchorages and I can go on for ages.

Sometimes, when the sh%t hits the fan, it's pretty nice when some cruisers have all that stuff. But here on CF is not that time

+1 A good overall sumary. On the positive side there a some excellent theads and some very knowledegable posters.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by tightgroup

Please explain your rationale as to isolation and one submitting to social order. .

Certainly.

Originally Posted by tightgroup
The personal choice of someone willing to carry a firearm is entirely up to the individual, and not for us to be judge and jury on their choices.

My Post:
Well, of course the rest of civilization is the judge and jury.

People dont live in isolation.

No one does.

I am saying that the whole world is civilization. Its the rest of the world that judges each country and what it does and how it acts within itself and to the rest of the world. Any country now can not think they live in isolation. Not even North Korea.

Iran internally tortures people, and externally threatens the world with nuclear weapons. Both internal and external are judged by the world civilisation.

If you look at the USA from the OUTSIDE in the last year the rest of the world sees the USA as having multiple mass shootings. Not only cinemas full of people but school rooms full of 6 year olds. The world perceives the USA have an internal problem with their guns. Now you are trying to externalise it by saying you have some right individually outside the USA.

So the USA is not isolated, it has been looked at, in the last year, by civilisation as having a significant problem.

Civilised people are the judge and jury and the USA is not winning it no matter what the NRA says, nor what your public poll or how they would vote in a referendum on the subject.

What more does it take for the USA to realise it needs to listen to the world civilisation? The ever higher levels of mass shootings is almost at a pinnacle. The "Look At Me" murderers have done a Primary School so whats next? A maternity ward full of babies?

The jury is not out. They have returned and have judged. Its only those in isolation that can't see the verdict.


Mark

[conachair]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Quite right. A firearm on board can be a problem but usually isn't, if it is declared. OTOH being dead is certainly a problem.

carried by 6, or tried by 12? both options suck but one sucks a little more than the other. Hope I never have to shoot anyone but I will do what I got to do when I got to do it, if I am able.

A major problem is that there are so very few incidents and so many variables which makes it impossible to tell if being armed onboard actually helps keep you safer or not.

In the end it's not a logical decision. There just isn't enough data to make a logical decision.

From different forums the decision to carry or not seems mostly to be decided by which culture you grew up in.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by conachair

A major problem is that there are so very few incidents and so many variables which makes it impossible to tell if being armed onboard actually helps keep you safer or not.

In the end it's not a logical decision. There just isn't enough data to make a logical decision.

From different forums the decision to carry or not seems mostly to be decided by which culture you grew up in.

Maybe a new thread... Pirates required.. must be prepared to travel and be shot at... funerals at sea free of charge..
Purely in the interests of research and science of course...