Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-02-2013, 05:54   #166
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,909
Images: 10
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Who said that? I never heard any pro-guns CF member say that you don't need to be trained and experienced with their use. It is remarks like above that make reasonable discussion on the subject impossible.

Legal? It is legal to carry on the high seas. In 99% or more of the nations, nothing happens to you when you declare a gun during entry. It is easy when you are honest, difficult and with risk when you lie about it.
I think we are on the same page, brother.
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 05:54   #167
Registered User
 
GrowleyMonster's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: Bruce Roberts 44 Ofshore
Posts: 2,907
Re: Piracy :-/

Has anyone thought to ask the pirates for their opinion? After all, the issue of armed sailors is relevant to their occupational safety.
__________________
GrowleyMonster
1979 Bruce Roberts Offshore 44, BRUTE FORCE
GrowleyMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 05:56   #168
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,030
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Maybe a new thread... Pirates required.. must be prepared to travel and be shot at... funerals at sea free of charge..
Purely in the interests of research and science of course...


conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 05:57   #169
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,909
Images: 10
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
Has anyone thought to ask the pirates for their opinion? After all, the issue of armed sailors is relevant to their occupational safety.
Somali Pirate Attacks On Decline
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:09   #170
CLOD
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,486
Re: Piracy :-/

for the gun people why do you want a gun on your boat:

1- fight off pirates/attacks while on the open water
2- protection while in port

I thought of doing a poll, but could not think of a title what wouldn't just sound like a toll
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:15   #171
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,909
Images: 10
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
for the gun people why do you want a gun on your boat:

1- fight off pirates/attacks while on the open water
2- protection while in port

I thought of doing a poll, but could not think of a title what wouldn't just sound like a toll
I'll quote from a TV series (Burn Notice) that I thought summed self defense and guns up nicely.

Little Boy: "Are you going to shoot Mr. Pine?"

Michael Westin: "I don't think that's going to be necessary."

Little Boy: "What if he tries to shoot you?"

Michael Westin: "Well, in that case, it will be necessary."
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:15   #172
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Who said that? I never heard any pro-guns CF member say that you don't need to be trained and experienced with their use. It is remarks like above that make reasonable discussion on the subject impossible.

Legal? It is legal to carry on the high seas. In 99% or more of the nations, nothing happens to you when you declare a gun during entry. It is easy when you are honest, difficult and with risk when you lie about it.
Obviously you have a lot of experience, in the area of clearing in firearms. Perhaps you might explain the situation to the US boat which had its AR-15 confiscated in German waters last year , As far as Im aware sailors don't actually spend a lot of time on the "high seas" .they spend the majority of it in national waters.

IN my experience, in two trips, the firearm is usually declared, handled in and collected again on departure from national waters, furthermore I find therefore that having that device locked away on land , not much use to me in the defense of my boat., The main reason why it is locked away, is in my experience, the official only cares that the firearm will not be stolen from you and turn up in their arena.

The reason there isnt a "reasonable" debate on yacht security and defensive strategies is that such debates get dominated by the "carry a gun" bridge, almost without exception US based and in effect believing they can transport US law to where they travel next

If the debate was about defence in US water, absolutely its a great debate, and I know exactly what Id carry, a good semi auto rifle for distance and a decent handgun for up close and personal. Im a reasonable shot with either.

But unfortunately the world isnt like the US.

SO why not debate "defensive measure" that dont depend on either hard or impossible to get items,( or reply on combat training etc etc) This debate is then actually useful to a majority of people who dont know anything about "separate and mitigate" , other then it sounds like Baking to me

DAve
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:22   #173
Registered User
 
Group9's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,909
Images: 10
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Obviously you have a lot of experience, in the area of clearing in firearms. Perhaps you might explain the situation to the US boat which had its AR-15 confiscated in German waters last year , As far as Im aware sailors don't actually spend a lot of time on the "high seas" .they spend the majority of it in national waters.

IN my experience, in two cases, the firearm is usually handled in and collected again on departure from national waters, furthermore I find therefore that having that device locked away on land , not much use to me in the defense of my boat.,

The reason there isnt a "reasonable" debate on yacht security and defensive strategies is that such debates get dominated by the "carry a gun" bridge, almost without exception US based and in effect believing they can transport US law to where they travel next

If the debate was about defence in US water, absolutely its a great debate, and I know exactly what Id carry, a good semi auto rifle for distance and a decent handgun for up close and personal. Im a reasonable shot with either.

But unfortunately the world isnt like the US.

SO why not debate "defensive measure" that dont depend on either hard or impossible to get items, This debate is then actually useful to a majority of people

DAve
You have a good point. A gun is not the only way to protect yourself. I've been in law enforcement for over 25 years. If you want to make your boat burglary proof, almost anywhere, there are ways to do it without a firearm.

I've always thought a switch by my bunk, that lit up the deck with floodlights would be a good deterent if you thought something was up. A second switch, that would set off a siren or air horn, would be a good escalation, if the problem was still ongoing. That would at least work in a harbor.

Criminals, everywhere, are looking for a 100 to 0 advantage. They are not looking for any kind of contest or challenge. The human mind is the most powerful weapon of all, if used, and imagination is the only limit.
Group9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:28   #174
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,594
Images: 75
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
for the gun people why do you want a gun on your boat:

1- fight off pirates/attacks while on the open water
2- protection while in port

I thought of doing a poll, but could not think of a title what wouldn't just sound like a toll
we did 2 circumnavigations with firearms onboard ,in reality their principle uses were.

1-shooting large fish ,that were difficult to land alive.

2-shooting goats,gazelle,wild pigs and chickens when the oppertunity arose

3-blasting flotsam in the water, off the aft deck to alleviate the boredom and give the guns a clean and oil.

4-to wave at suspect fishermen following a little bit too closely.

5-give bored customs officers something to do,it takes quite a while to count 2000 rounds of ammo!

never used them in anger for defence,unless you count seagulls
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:37   #175
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
and chickens when the oppertunity arose
dont you find the owners get pissed at you .....

Dave
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:39   #176
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,594
Images: 75
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
dont you find the owners get pissed at you .....

Dave
only if they happened to be holding the bird at the time
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 06:56   #177
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
only if they happened to be holding the bird at the time

Of course I should have guessed, the **** from a dying chicken/hen is awful hard to get off his clothes, a bit of laundry should get things right!

Dave
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 07:11   #178
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,594
Images: 75
Re: Piracy :-/

mostly we shot "feral" chickens in places like chagos where the owners had long since left,or marquesas in the many isolated anchorages where you find abandoned shacks,fruit trees from infrequent occupation.
west africa,along the banks of the gambia river,sini salom and casamanche,during the winter their is fantastic grouse hunting!
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 07:14   #179
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Re: Piracy :-/

Quote:
mostly we shot "feral" chickens in places like chagos where the owners had long since left,or marquesas in the many isolated anchorages where you find abandoned shacks,fruit trees from infrequent occupation.
west africa,along the banks of the gambia river,sini salom and casamanche,during the winter their is fantastic grouse hunting!
I must get a out of doing deliveries to 1st world places.
__________________
Interested in smart boat technology, networking and all things tech
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-02-2013, 07:15   #180
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: O'Day 28
Posts: 3,922
pirate Re: Piracy :-/

That was a good read about Somalian pirates. Best quote: "Armed guards aboard cargo ships and an international naval armada that carries out onshore raids have put a huge dent in piracy and might even be ending the scourge." Bad guys understand good guys with guns.


#4 on Atoll's list

"to wave at suspect fishermen following a little bit too closely."

You betcha! My ex-wife and I ran into this situation in the ICW down in cajun country. Deep in the swamp. The second time the bubbas in the jon boat checked us out, we rounded a bend out of sight and I unloaded a fusillade of showboating firepower. Didn't see them again AND we carried on another 20 miles before setting the hook AND we kept an armed anchor watch all night.

Bad guys understand good guys with guns.

Seems like every day or so we read of some Middle Eastern suicide bomber or car bomber killing a buttload of people. Has anyone in those countries even thought of banning bombs? Oh, they have? Well, there you go then.

I also note that the UK and Oz population combined is less than a third of the US, and those folks haven't the legal basis for gun-totin' That the good ol' Mericans have. Plus, I don't think most peaceniks are facing a foreign invasion along their southern border like the US is. If those pesky Canadians start sneaking in, we, already a minority, will be toast. Piracy can take on many faces bouys and gulls.
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.