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Old 01-12-2019, 10:39   #1051
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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some people just cant the get the point ,, or do they not want to ??
If you mean raising awareness of the underlying issue in the broadest -- but also the most superficial sense -- then I would agree. However, I suspect it's not just the hypocrisy that many disapprove of, but the inability or unwillingness to publicize the issue with more of its complexities.

There was another recent CF thread where someone calculated that, given a reasonably full commercial airliner crossing the Atlantic, the fuel consumption is roughly 40 gals/passenger. Not sure if this is a reasonable approximation, and also not sure how much engine and/or generator time La Vag has had on its crossing thus far, but on a boat that size generally it wouldn't be hard to exceed burning 40 gals. of diesel (but maybe they have a lot of solar, etc.). So there are economies of scale that are being glossed over if not ignored with Greta's personal "no-fly" policy beyond the more obvious, yes "multitudes" of flights her round-trip sail to the New World incurred.

Whatever . . . it's not hard to admire the apparent skill in which they have conducted their passage but question the benefits of the "awareness" they've raised about CC. Just like it's not hard to wish them well but also recognize that, for many experienced sailors who have been out there a long time, this particular passage would not be recommended (putting it mildly). There's a lot more to the various critiques which have occasioned this thread than the sunny impression the average viewer watches on youTube.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:59   #1052
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

what hypocrisy ?? i think that you have already implied that you do understand the main point in the voyage ,, so why pick hairs with trivia , however it seems that even the simple message still can not get throo to some,,, old saying ,, there are none so blind as those who will not see .
and some still want to stick their oar in with childish attempts to slurry the occasion
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:17   #1053
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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what hypocrisy ?? i think that you have already implied that you do understand the main point in the voyage ,, so why pick hairs with trivia , however it seems that even the simple message still can not get throo to some,,, old saying ,, there are none so blind as those who will not see .
and some still want to stick their oar in with childish attempts to slurry the occasion
The slurrying is hardly confined to CF. In fact, this thread went pretty well -- by CF standards that is. Some see a simple message, others hypocrisy due to all the air travel incurred -- as a direct result of Greta's no-fly policy that is. While others see an important message that's being trivialized to the point of being counter-productive. While still others see the CC message as inconsequential compared to the risks of a trans-Atlantic passage in Nov. at ~40 lat with a baby onboard.

No sense getting too jammed up over it as it's just the way the world rolls. Besides, there's a lot of learning that derives from contrarian opinions, whether you happen to agree or not.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:46   #1054
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

i would hope that some of the vitriol is not typical of CF , tho obviously being an established member gives a few " byes " when it comes to commonly regarded decency ...
it is as you say " a simple message " and from my own experience most people grasp it and any issues of perceived or exaggerated contradictions reg the flights are dismissed as desperate people looking for excuses to berate the campaign .
i think most people recorgnise that if the girl is wrong then it does not matter , but if she is right then it matters a great deal ,, so why the hatred ?
of course there are always lessons to be learned , here particularly , one to learn is not to be defamatory and insult persons when they have no means of reply or defense .
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:49   #1055
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

looks like a bit of a sting in the tail for tomorrow with some strong winds and (hopefully ) an easy finish on tue or Wed .
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:50   #1056
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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a friend of mine is one of those extinction rebellion protesters,who has been arrested ,locked up,released,chained herself to diggers etc,re arrested,.through the courts etc,she is also a qualified human rights lawyer
In fairness, in the words of Martin Luther King "if you don't get arrested in an act of civil disobedience you aren't doing it right."
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:14   #1057
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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Exactly.

I don't blame Greta, I blame the ones who simply want to make money off her obvious innocence like Al Gore and the "Carbon Offset" bullsh*t.
Total sham and he lives in a huge mansion.
Rules are for little people remember.
Meanwhile the price of electricity goes up and up! And they make illegal to heat your house with wood because CFC's yet that tree will fall and rot one day releasing the same amount of CFC's.
Do they even understand their own BS?
They can't.
Global warming has been happening off and on for as long as the Earth has existed.
This is not an opinion, nor politics, its frickin' science!
that is the science of misrepresentation ,,,
i find it absolutely amazing that anyone can not see that GT not flying is an attempt to save the ( estimated ) 40 g of fuel but to draw attention to a much greater issue , do they not know how the modern world works ??, which despite the denialists she HAS done ,,amazing.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:24   #1058
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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In fairness, in the words of Martin Luther King "if you don't get arrested in an act of civil disobedience you aren't doing it right."
in fairness to activists (and the elephant in the room),which is global population that is unsustainable,climate inbalance is just a byproduct.

it is activists that will be first for the gulag when the powers that be with the best resources are forced to tackle mass extinction pragmatically and reduce world population drastically, apart from a billion or so for labour and reproduction

the fittest will survive,so tough luck if you got a disability.........
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:26   #1059
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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in fairness to activists (and the elephant in the room),which is global population that is unsustainable,climate inbalance is just a byproduct.

it is activists that will be first for the gulag when the powers that be with the best resources are forced to tackle mass extinction pragmatically and reduce world population drastically, apart from a billion or so for labour and reproduction
Too bad Orwell is gone. It could be a new best seller.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:27   #1060
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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i would hope that some of the vitriol is not typical of CF , tho obviously being an established member gives a few " byes " when it comes to commonly regarded decency ...
it is as you say " a simple message " and from my own experience most people grasp it and any issues of perceived or exaggerated contradictions reg the flights are dismissed as desperate people looking for excuses to berate the campaign .
i think most people recorgnise that if the girl is wrong then it does not matter , but if she is right then it matters a great deal ,, so why the hatred ?
of course there are always lessons to be learned , here particularly , one to learn is not to be defamatory and insult persons when they have no means of reply or defense .
For many, including myself, it's not whether G is "right" or "wrong" about the science, it's that her message is too simple, too binary, too sanctimonious, and therefore too divisive. And yes, for many also too hypocritical when you consider the additional emissions produced from her highly publicized use of sailboats to vindicate her refusal to fly. You disagree on the grounds that raising awareness outweighs the increased emissions required to get the message out. Not unlike politicians & celebs flying in to conferences on their private jets -- got that. But others don't so I guess you'll have to work that out.

Along with countless other pieces of sailing jargon which have found their way into the common lexicon, I strongly suspect the term "salty language" may also be attributable to the Brits. Maybe best not to personalize and worse, make assumptions about complete strangers, whether they meet with your disapproval on CF or with your untempered adulation on youTube. Based on his generous help & advice in many threads over the years concerning overdue and missing boats, I suspect people like Atoll, Boatie and others who you refer to as "established members" would be doing whatever they could to assist in the event La Vaga came to grief. The perceived reality we see on youTube doesn't always line up with the real deal.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:41   #1061
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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i would hope that some of the vitriol is not typical of CF , tho obviously being an established member gives a few " byes " when it comes to commonly regarded decency ...
While I generally sympathize with what you are saying this thread truly has been a dream compared to any other that eve hinted at climate or climate change. We just need to follow BW's example and ignore the OT opinions expressed and hopefully it will stay that way.

So why are they still easting so far north of Lisbon? Will the VMG really be that much better if they head due south once hitting the coast rather than cutting the angle?
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:45   #1062
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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While I generally sympathize with what you are saying this thread truly has been a dream compared to any other that eve hinted at climate or climate change. We just need to follow BW's example and ignore the OT opinions expressed and hopefully it will stay that way.

So why are they still easting so far north of Lisbon? Will the VMG really be that much better if they head due south once hitting the coast rather than cutting the angle?
there is a possibility of easterly or even south easterly winds over the next 48 hrs
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:46   #1063
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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For many, including myself, it's not whether G is "right" or "wrong" about the science, it's that her message is too simple, too binary, too sanctimonious, and therefore too divisive. And yes, for many also too hypocritical when you consider the additional emissions produced from her highly publicized use of sailboats to vindicate her refusal to fly. You disagree on the grounds that raising awareness outweighs the increased emissions required to get the message out. Not unlike politicians & celebs flying in to conferences on their private jets -- got that. But others don't so I guess you'll have to work that out.

Along with countless other pieces of sailing jargon which have found their way into the common lexicon, I strongly suspect the term "salty language" may also be attributable to the Brits. Maybe best not to personalize and worse, make assumptions about complete strangers, whether they meet with your disapproval on CF or with your untempered adulation on youTube. Based on his generous help & advice in many threads over the years concerning overdue and missing boats, I suspect people like Atoll, Boatie and others who you refer to as "established members" would be doing whatever they could to assist in the event La Vaga came to grief. The perceived reality we see on youTube doesn't always line up with the real deal.
i think perhaps if you read my posts therin would lay the lie to your argument ,, I HAVE NOT WATCHED LA VAG for probably over a year . ( nor many others ) !!
i have not had much of a prob with what boaty has posted , some others have been scathing and some quite nasty , but really only the one has been
below , i would have thot , normal standards of etiguette ( even on here ) , i know nothing of his past
ps,, the message is very simple but surely not too simple for most to understand, binary , yes and i dont see anybody being sanctamonious ,, so therefor not being a reason for being devisive , those reasons have been explored in great detail before , one of the reasons that she did not want to fly was exactly so that she could not be branded with the celebs politios etc ,, ,, got that ,, not too difficult
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:54   #1064
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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i think most people recorgnise that if the girl is wrong then it does not matter , but if she is right then it matters a great deal ,, so why the hatred ?
I also struggle with this concept. I hope very much that she (or rather, the scientists she refers to) is very much mistaken about our dire situation but having heard a number of presentations on the topic (very dry, matter of fact, by scientists) I fear she is right with her message. What I fear most of all however is that all the discrediting/rubbishing of the climate change arguments comes from the position that "I will be all right in my lifetime and am definitely not going to give up any of my luxuries". Curse of the commons. But now we can't simply move on to the next patch of land, the commons are now global and we have nowhere left to go.
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Old 01-12-2019, 13:01   #1065
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Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

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I also struggle with this concept. I hope very much that she (or rather, the scientists she refers to) is very much mistaken about our dire situation but having heard a number of presentations on the topic (very dry, matter of fact, by scientists) I fear she is right with her message. What I fear most of all however is that all the discrediting/rubbishing of the climate change arguments comes from the position that "I will be all right in my lifetime and am definitely not going to give up any of my luxuries". Curse of the commons. But now we can't simply move on to the next patch of land, the commons are now global and we have nowhere left to go.
the irony is , we dont have to give up so much ,, just change direction ,,, science maybe , but not rocket science , as they say
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