La Vagabonde's crossing

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Budawang

Sounds reasonable to me.

Maybe the best comment so far and one that most of us can aspire to without too much difficulty

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Population is our biggest problem. Everything else is a symptom.

SORRY about the CC reply but I could not not reply to this.

Population X [Impact on Earth]

... is the problem.

As a few basic human rights stand in the way of radical changes to the first one, naturally a lot of focus has be on the latter.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Budawang

I would be tempted to start a thread on the expected future impact of climate change on cruising, including likely changes to cruising routes, seasons, forecasting, insurance, popular destinations etc etc. However, I'm sure it would be quickly hijacked by the small number of posters here who, for reasons only known to them, disagree with the science.

Ahh.. A supporter of the new Religion.. Science.
I have great difficulty in thinking of a single Scientific discovery that has benefited the Planet and the Natural World.. but the list of things that have/are destroying the balance are innumerable.
But what the hell.. Like the old gods this one knows it all.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Budawang

I would be tempted to start a thread on the expected future impact of climate change on cruising, including likely changes to cruising routes, seasons, forecasting, insurance, popular destinations etc etc. However, I'm sure it would be quickly hijacked by the small number of posters here who, for reasons only known to them, disagree with the science.

Careful reading will show that a majority of those you label as disagreeing with the science do not in fact do so. Some of us take issue with conclusions and other opinions on the basis of science presented as fact.

Note that I have a deep personal pet peeve about confusing opinion and fact, and indeed educated opinion with opinion at large. I'm sensitive to those issues. They lead to very poor decision making. Then we have error bars around data presented as truth when it is truth +/- error. We talked about the latter with respect to the application of computer weather models and ensembles in this thread.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm not sure we're talking about an extraordinary skill set, compared to that of a fair number of actual ocean sailors around here on CF, but I don't think anyone could deny that the voyage was very well executed and successful in just about every nautical way, something any of us would be proud to have done.

If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.

Originally Posted by cagney

This link is worth a read. https://translate.google.com/transla...n/&prev=search

It's gives some interesting background info to the trip.....

++ for Nikki Henderson, who did exactly what she was expected to do.

If true, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise than general suspicious of media, it explains a good deal. Only two real watchstanders and 3-1/2 passengers struck (and strikes) me as a management shortfall. That the decision was made by Mr. Whitelum explains a good deal. That he appears to have been in nominal command and that Ms. Henderson had to "manage up" adds to my respect for her. I'm not nearly so impressed with the owners of La Vagabonde.

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

How is 3 children 'so many'?

You listed eight children including step-children. Melded families make "counting" replacement reproduction challenging, but eight is a lot. Six grandchildren already with children still likely at reproduction ages is more than the four that would be replacement level. It's a lot. You will of course take offense. That is not my intent. I made an observation that in point of fact you are contributing to population growth.

I'd be happy to sell my replacement slots. Sort of like carbon offsets.... *grin*

Originally Posted by mglonnro

SORRY about the CC reply but I could not not reply to this.

Population X [Impact on Earth]

... is the problem.

As a few basic human rights stand in the way of radical changes to the first one, naturally a lot of focus has be on the latter.

Awkward things, basic human rights. Note that what constitutes basic human rights is entirely based on opinion. The "right" to reproduce willy-nilly to the point of depleting planetary resources is an opinion. It is like the "right" to launch into a hurricane (although at least in some countries you may be stopped and turned back if appropriate services realize what you are doing).

Quite agree about the impact part. Consumption is something we can all work on to do our parts.

[Hartings]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Careful reading will show that a majority of those you label as disagreeing with the science do not in fact do so. Some of us take issue with conclusions and other opinions on the basis of science presented as fact.



Note that I have a deep personal pet peeve about confusing opinion and fact, and indeed educated opinion with opinion at large. I'm sensitive to those issues. They lead to very poor decision making. Then we have error bars around data presented as truth when it is truth +/- error. We talked about the latter with respect to the application of computer weather models and ensembles in this thread.







If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.







If true, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise than general suspicious of media, it explains a good deal. Only two real watchstanders and 3-1/2 passengers struck (and strikes) me as a management shortfall. That the decision was made by Mr. Whitelum explains a good deal. That he appears to have been in nominal command and that Ms. Henderson had to "manage up" adds to my respect for her. I'm not nearly so impressed with the owners of La Vagabonde.







You listed eight children including step-children. Melded families make "counting" replacement reproduction challenging, but eight is a lot. Six grandchildren already with children still likely at reproduction ages is more than the four that would be replacement level. It's a lot. You will of course take offense. That is not my intent. I made an observation that in point of fact you are contributing to population growth.



I'd be happy to sell my replacement slots. Sort of like carbon offsets.... *grin*







Awkward things, basic human rights. Note that what constitutes basic human rights is entirely based on opinion. The "right" to reproduce willy-nilly to the point of depleting planetary resources is an opinion. It is like the "right" to launch into a hurricane (although at least in some countries you may be stopped and turned back if appropriate services realize what you are doing).



Quite agree about the impact part. Consumption is something we can all work on to do our parts.

Erm...... I think you need to read up on the difference between a ‘right’ and an ‘opinion’.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Careful reading will show that a majority of those you label as disagreeing with the science do not in fact do so. Some of us take issue with conclusions and other opinions on the basis of science presented as fact.

Note that I have a deep personal pet peeve about confusing opinion and fact, and indeed educated opinion with opinion at large. I'm sensitive to those issues. They lead to very poor decision making. Then we have error bars around data presented as truth when it is truth +/- error. We talked about the latter with respect to the application of computer weather models and ensembles in this thread.



If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.



If true, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise than general suspicious of media, it explains a good deal. Only two real watchstanders and 3-1/2 passengers struck (and strikes) me as a management shortfall. That the decision was made by Mr. Whitelum explains a good deal. That he appears to have been in nominal command and that Ms. Henderson had to "manage up" adds to my respect for her. I'm not nearly so impressed with the owners of La Vagabonde.



You listed eight children including step-children. Melded families make "counting" replacement reproduction challenging, but eight is a lot. Six grandchildren already with children still likely at reproduction ages is more than the four that would be replacement level. It's a lot. You will of course take offense. That is not my intent. I made an observation that in point of fact you are contributing to population growth.

I'd be happy to sell my replacement slots. Sort of like carbon offsets.... *grin*



Awkward things, basic human rights. Note that what constitutes basic human rights is entirely based on opinion. The "right" to reproduce willy-nilly to the point of depleting planetary resources is an opinion. It is like the "right" to launch into a hurricane (although at least in some countries you may be stopped and turned back if appropriate services realize what you are doing).

Quite agree about the impact part. Consumption is something we can all work on to do our parts.

I have no kids ,do I get some carbon credits? surely this makes me very green, between no kids and sitting on a sailing boat 24/7 I'm almost a non hypocrite......almost[emoji1787][emoji1787]

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.
. . . .

Well, it's still down to the skipper, and the results speak for themselves. When the vessel arrives in good condition with everyone in good spirits and good condition, the skipper has done his or her job.


As to shore support -- this voyage was an example of a kind of very active routing which I have not previously seen non-racers do, with what seem to me to be spectacular results. We discussed it above. I had some shore support on my last big ocean voyage but nowhere near this level. I will think this through from zero before the next big ocean passage, for sure.


As to "effective long-range comms", how right you are about this. Although I am a ham and love HF radio and normally get along fine with it, we used an Iridium Go on the last big voyage and loved its total reliability and utter lack of faff. Continuous and effortless access to all kinds of weather data, and the ability to communicate freely with people on shore, was a revelation and of course was a precondition to the kind of very active routing done by LV on this passage.

[weavis]

I think its time for you contributors to stick to the crossing and leave climate change out of the conversation.

Its tiring deleting multiple posts. Next one gets the thread closed.

[crankysailor]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

How is 3 children 'so many'?

Cause 3 children is above the current global population replacement birth rate. So if everyone keeps having 3 children, population keeps increasing and sooner or later we run into trouble one way or another. Since most of the draconian measures required to curb CO2 emissions would be so unpalatable as to make them unrealistic, we probably need to reduce the population drastically over the next generation. Any discussion in this regard of course slips quickly into human rights issues territory (one child policy anyone?) so that is also unpalatable. The most likely outcome is that as a species we take neither of those two unsavory options and just allow reality to take its course and hits us in the face the hard way. Regardless of how you feel about science, you can't really debate your way out of the law of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by weavis

I think its time for you contributors to stick to the crossing and leave climate change out of the conversation.

Its tiring deleting multiple posts. Next one gets the thread closed.

Climate Change!

[atoll]

Originally Posted by crankysailor

Cause 3 children is above the current global population replacement birth rate. So if everyone keeps having 3 children, population keeps increasing and sooner or later we run into trouble one way or another. Since most of the draconian measures required to curb CO2 emissions would be so unpalatable as to make them unrealistic, we probably need to reduce the population drastically over the next generation. Any discussion in this regard of course slips quickly into human rights issues territory (one child policy anyone?) so that is also unpalatable. The most likely outcome is that as a species we take neither of those two unsavory options and just allow reality to take its course and hits us in the face the hard way. Regardless of how you feel about science, you can't really debate your way out of the law of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics.

CF doing its bit to save the planet!
if we as a forum encourage more people to make out of season passages in ill equipped boats with young children and only basic sailing skills there should soon be a noticeable decrease in population growth......

face book has plenty of crew on offer who are all looking for passages out of season,so no shortage of crew......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sailboatyacht/
Hi everybody! I'm planning a long journey for this summer and I wanted to ask, if there is anyone, who already knows he is gonna sail from Europe to Panama (or something close), when the summer comes.

I'm talkative, helpful, adventurous and one month of sailing experienced guy looking for a ship to join

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

if we as a forum encourage more people to make out of season passages in ill equipped boats with young children and only basic sailing skills there should soon be a noticeable decrease in population growth......

face book has plenty of crew on offer who are all looking for passages out of season,so no shortage of crew......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sailboatyacht/
Hi everybody! I'm planning a long journey for this summer and I wanted to ask, if there is anyone, who already knows he is gonna sail from Europe to Panama (or something close), when the summer comes.

I'm talkative, helpful, adventurous and one month of sailing experienced guy looking for a ship to join

Thats already been tested and proved a failure.. they got rescued and went on to become social forum legends..

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by atoll

if we as a forum encourage more people to make out of season passages in ill equipped boats with young children and only basic sailing skills there should soon be a noticeable decrease in population growth......

face book has plenty of crew on offer who are all looking for passages out of season,so no shortage of crew......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sailboatyacht/
Hi everybody! I'm planning a long journey for this summer and I wanted to ask, if there is anyone, who already knows he is gonna sail from Europe to Panama (or something close), when the summer comes.

I'm talkative, helpful, adventurous and one month of sailing experienced guy looking for a ship to join

This is something that crosses my mind regularly, crew put tremendous faith in the skipper and boat they join often ignorantly doing so, they dont know what they dont know, they have no idea how to judge the skippers ability or the seaworthiness of the vessel, or the skippers ability to make prudent decisions.

I have crew currently, nice young Belgium girl, she comments that I'm very conservative in regards to my cruising decisions ie my choice of Anchorages, moving if I'm not comfortable, anchor alarm, reefing early etc....shes mentioned this several times, It always gives me a giggle, I dont see my decisions as conservative, I see them as a result of having my ass handed to me enough to influence my cruising decisions.

I see this often on cruisers forum and associated comments, ignorance through limited experience. Tieing this into this passage, did Greta have enough knowledge, experience to make a prudent decision regarding this passage? Yer sure it worked out but did she really understand the risks involved? obviously Nikki did (I assume) but the others? maybe Riley did in theory?

Alot of faith is shown when inexperienced crew hop on someone's boat regarding the skippers decision making ,past ,present and future.

[daletournier]

Theres Utube reality and then theres reality.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Thats already been tested and proved a failure.. they got rescued and went on to become social forum legends..

we have not yet discussed the benefits of not having an epirb,or any other form of working communication devices, 5g is a very good example of this!!!!!!!!

i do not want to go sailing AND have to wear a tin foil hat