Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-12-2019, 03:30   #1351
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: NZL - Currently Run Aground Ashore..
Boat: Sail & Power for over 35 years, experience cruising the Eastern Caribbean, Western Med, and more
Posts: 2,129
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budawang View Post
Sounds reasonable to me.
Maybe the best comment so far and one that most of us can aspire to without too much difficulty
jmh2002 is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 03:42   #1352
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Boat: Hanse 531
Posts: 1,076
Images: 1
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
Population is our biggest problem. Everything else is a symptom.
SORRY about the CC reply but I could not not reply to this.

Population X [Impact on Earth]

... is the problem.

As a few basic human rights stand in the way of radical changes to the first one, naturally a lot of focus has be on the latter.
__________________
Call me Mikael
nkdsailor.blog
mglonnro is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 04:47   #1353
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,724
Images: 2
pirate Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budawang View Post
I would be tempted to start a thread on the expected future impact of climate change on cruising, including likely changes to cruising routes, seasons, forecasting, insurance, popular destinations etc etc. However, I'm sure it would be quickly hijacked by the small number of posters here who, for reasons only known to them, disagree with the science.
Ahh.. A supporter of the new Religion.. Science.
I have great difficulty in thinking of a single Scientific discovery that has benefited the Planet and the Natural World.. but the list of things that have/are destroying the balance are innumerable.
But what the hell.. Like the old gods this one knows it all.
__________________

You can't beat a people up for 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".
"I am not less life-loving than you are.
But I cannot sell my birthright, nor am I prepared to sell the birthright of the people to be free." Nelson Mandela.
boatman61 is online now  
Old 04-12-2019, 04:55   #1354
Registered User
 
Auspicious's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: HR 40
Posts: 3,651
Send a message via Skype™ to Auspicious
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budawang View Post
I would be tempted to start a thread on the expected future impact of climate change on cruising, including likely changes to cruising routes, seasons, forecasting, insurance, popular destinations etc etc. However, I'm sure it would be quickly hijacked by the small number of posters here who, for reasons only known to them, disagree with the science.
Careful reading will show that a majority of those you label as disagreeing with the science do not in fact do so. Some of us take issue with conclusions and other opinions on the basis of science presented as fact.

Note that I have a deep personal pet peeve about confusing opinion and fact, and indeed educated opinion with opinion at large. I'm sensitive to those issues. They lead to very poor decision making. Then we have error bars around data presented as truth when it is truth +/- error. We talked about the latter with respect to the application of computer weather models and ensembles in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I'm not sure we're talking about an extraordinary skill set, compared to that of a fair number of actual ocean sailors around here on CF, but I don't think anyone could deny that the voyage was very well executed and successful in just about every nautical way, something any of us would be proud to have done.
If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
This link is worth a read. https://translate.google.com/transla...n/&prev=search

It's gives some interesting background info to the trip.....

++ for Nikki Henderson, who did exactly what she was expected to do.
If true, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise than general suspicious of media, it explains a good deal. Only two real watchstanders and 3-1/2 passengers struck (and strikes) me as a management shortfall. That the decision was made by Mr. Whitelum explains a good deal. That he appears to have been in nominal command and that Ms. Henderson had to "manage up" adds to my respect for her. I'm not nearly so impressed with the owners of La Vagabonde.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Adeline View Post
How is 3 children 'so many'?
You listed eight children including step-children. Melded families make "counting" replacement reproduction challenging, but eight is a lot. Six grandchildren already with children still likely at reproduction ages is more than the four that would be replacement level. It's a lot. You will of course take offense. That is not my intent. I made an observation that in point of fact you are contributing to population growth.

I'd be happy to sell my replacement slots. Sort of like carbon offsets.... *grin*

Quote:
Originally Posted by mglonnro View Post
SORRY about the CC reply but I could not not reply to this.

Population X [Impact on Earth]

... is the problem.

As a few basic human rights stand in the way of radical changes to the first one, naturally a lot of focus has be on the latter.
Awkward things, basic human rights. Note that what constitutes basic human rights is entirely based on opinion. The "right" to reproduce willy-nilly to the point of depleting planetary resources is an opinion. It is like the "right" to launch into a hurricane (although at least in some countries you may be stopped and turned back if appropriate services realize what you are doing).

Quite agree about the impact part. Consumption is something we can all work on to do our parts.
__________________
sail fast and eat well, dave
AuspiciousWorks
Beware cut and paste sailors
Auspicious is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:08   #1355
Registered User
 
Hartings's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Boat: Discovery 50
Posts: 151
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
Careful reading will show that a majority of those you label as disagreeing with the science do not in fact do so. Some of us take issue with conclusions and other opinions on the basis of science presented as fact.



Note that I have a deep personal pet peeve about confusing opinion and fact, and indeed educated opinion with opinion at large. I'm sensitive to those issues. They lead to very poor decision making. Then we have error bars around data presented as truth when it is truth +/- error. We talked about the latter with respect to the application of computer weather models and ensembles in this thread.







If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.







If true, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise than general suspicious of media, it explains a good deal. Only two real watchstanders and 3-1/2 passengers struck (and strikes) me as a management shortfall. That the decision was made by Mr. Whitelum explains a good deal. That he appears to have been in nominal command and that Ms. Henderson had to "manage up" adds to my respect for her. I'm not nearly so impressed with the owners of La Vagabonde.







You listed eight children including step-children. Melded families make "counting" replacement reproduction challenging, but eight is a lot. Six grandchildren already with children still likely at reproduction ages is more than the four that would be replacement level. It's a lot. You will of course take offense. That is not my intent. I made an observation that in point of fact you are contributing to population growth.



I'd be happy to sell my replacement slots. Sort of like carbon offsets.... *grin*







Awkward things, basic human rights. Note that what constitutes basic human rights is entirely based on opinion. The "right" to reproduce willy-nilly to the point of depleting planetary resources is an opinion. It is like the "right" to launch into a hurricane (although at least in some countries you may be stopped and turned back if appropriate services realize what you are doing).



Quite agree about the impact part. Consumption is something we can all work on to do our parts.


Erm...... I think you need to read up on the difference between a ‘right’ and an ‘opinion’.
Hartings is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:11   #1356
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
Careful reading will show that a majority of those you label as disagreeing with the science do not in fact do so. Some of us take issue with conclusions and other opinions on the basis of science presented as fact.

Note that I have a deep personal pet peeve about confusing opinion and fact, and indeed educated opinion with opinion at large. I'm sensitive to those issues. They lead to very poor decision making. Then we have error bars around data presented as truth when it is truth +/- error. We talked about the latter with respect to the application of computer weather models and ensembles in this thread.



If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.



If true, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise than general suspicious of media, it explains a good deal. Only two real watchstanders and 3-1/2 passengers struck (and strikes) me as a management shortfall. That the decision was made by Mr. Whitelum explains a good deal. That he appears to have been in nominal command and that Ms. Henderson had to "manage up" adds to my respect for her. I'm not nearly so impressed with the owners of La Vagabonde.



You listed eight children including step-children. Melded families make "counting" replacement reproduction challenging, but eight is a lot. Six grandchildren already with children still likely at reproduction ages is more than the four that would be replacement level. It's a lot. You will of course take offense. That is not my intent. I made an observation that in point of fact you are contributing to population growth.

I'd be happy to sell my replacement slots. Sort of like carbon offsets.... *grin*



Awkward things, basic human rights. Note that what constitutes basic human rights is entirely based on opinion. The "right" to reproduce willy-nilly to the point of depleting planetary resources is an opinion. It is like the "right" to launch into a hurricane (although at least in some countries you may be stopped and turned back if appropriate services realize what you are doing).

Quite agree about the impact part. Consumption is something we can all work on to do our parts.
I have no kids ,do I get some carbon credits? surely this makes me very green, between no kids and sitting on a sailing boat 24/7 I'm almost a non hypocrite......almost[emoji1787][emoji1787]
daletournier is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:22   #1357
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Cruising North Sea and Baltic (Summer)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 34,268
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
If the article below is correct the Thunbergs had a great advisor and La Vagabonde had an able shore crew in addition to Ms. Henderson on board. The takeaway from that for cruisers is to think about your shore support and effective long-range comms to stay in touch.
. . . .

Well, it's still down to the skipper, and the results speak for themselves. When the vessel arrives in good condition with everyone in good spirits and good condition, the skipper has done his or her job.


As to shore support -- this voyage was an example of a kind of very active routing which I have not previously seen non-racers do, with what seem to me to be spectacular results. We discussed it above. I had some shore support on my last big ocean voyage but nowhere near this level. I will think this through from zero before the next big ocean passage, for sure.


As to "effective long-range comms", how right you are about this. Although I am a ham and love HF radio and normally get along fine with it, we used an Iridium Go on the last big voyage and loved its total reliability and utter lack of faff. Continuous and effortless access to all kinds of weather data, and the ability to communicate freely with people on shore, was a revelation and of course was a precondition to the kind of very active routing done by LV on this passage.
__________________
"You sea! I resign myself to you also . . . . I guess what you mean,
I behold from the beach your crooked inviting fingers,
I believe you refuse to go back without feeling of me;
We must have a turn together . . . . I undress . . . . hurry me out of sight of the land,
Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
Dash me with amorous wet . . . . I can repay you."
Walt Whitman
Dockhead is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:29   #1358
Moderator Emeritus
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

I think its time for you contributors to stick to the crossing and leave climate change out of the conversation.

Its tiring deleting multiple posts. Next one gets the thread closed.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:45   #1359
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Today here, tomorrow over there
Boat: Malö 40H
Posts: 345
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Adeline View Post
How is 3 children 'so many'?
Cause 3 children is above the current global population replacement birth rate. So if everyone keeps having 3 children, population keeps increasing and sooner or later we run into trouble one way or another. Since most of the draconian measures required to curb CO2 emissions would be so unpalatable as to make them unrealistic, we probably need to reduce the population drastically over the next generation. Any discussion in this regard of course slips quickly into human rights issues territory (one child policy anyone?) so that is also unpalatable. The most likely outcome is that as a species we take neither of those two unsavory options and just allow reality to take its course and hits us in the face the hard way. Regardless of how you feel about science, you can't really debate your way out of the law of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics.
crankysailor is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 05:49   #1360
Registered User
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,891
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
I think its time for you contributors to stick to the crossing and leave climate change out of the conversation.

Its tiring deleting multiple posts. Next one gets the thread closed.

Climate Change!
StuM is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:06   #1361
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,594
Images: 75
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by crankysailor View Post
Cause 3 children is above the current global population replacement birth rate. So if everyone keeps having 3 children, population keeps increasing and sooner or later we run into trouble one way or another. Since most of the draconian measures required to curb CO2 emissions would be so unpalatable as to make them unrealistic, we probably need to reduce the population drastically over the next generation. Any discussion in this regard of course slips quickly into human rights issues territory (one child policy anyone?) so that is also unpalatable. The most likely outcome is that as a species we take neither of those two unsavory options and just allow reality to take its course and hits us in the face the hard way. Regardless of how you feel about science, you can't really debate your way out of the law of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics.
CF doing its bit to save the planet!
if we as a forum encourage more people to make out of season passages in ill equipped boats with young children and only basic sailing skills there should soon be a noticeable decrease in population growth......

face book has plenty of crew on offer who are all looking for passages out of season,so no shortage of crew......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sailboatyacht/
Hi everybody! I'm planning a long journey for this summer and I wanted to ask, if there is anyone, who already knows he is gonna sail from Europe to Panama (or something close), when the summer comes.

I'm talkative, helpful, adventurous and one month of sailing experienced guy looking for a ship to join
atoll is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:14   #1362
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,724
Images: 2
pirate Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
if we as a forum encourage more people to make out of season passages in ill equipped boats with young children and only basic sailing skills there should soon be a noticeable decrease in population growth......

face book has plenty of crew on offer who are all looking for passages out of season,so no shortage of crew......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sailboatyacht/
Hi everybody! I'm planning a long journey for this summer and I wanted to ask, if there is anyone, who already knows he is gonna sail from Europe to Panama (or something close), when the summer comes.

I'm talkative, helpful, adventurous and one month of sailing experienced guy looking for a ship to join
Thats already been tested and proved a failure.. they got rescued and went on to become social forum legends..
__________________

You can't beat a people up for 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".
"I am not less life-loving than you are.
But I cannot sell my birthright, nor am I prepared to sell the birthright of the people to be free." Nelson Mandela.
boatman61 is online now  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:21   #1363
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
if we as a forum encourage more people to make out of season passages in ill equipped boats with young children and only basic sailing skills there should soon be a noticeable decrease in population growth......

face book has plenty of crew on offer who are all looking for passages out of season,so no shortage of crew......

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sailboatyacht/
Hi everybody! I'm planning a long journey for this summer and I wanted to ask, if there is anyone, who already knows he is gonna sail from Europe to Panama (or something close), when the summer comes.

I'm talkative, helpful, adventurous and one month of sailing experienced guy looking for a ship to join
This is something that crosses my mind regularly, crew put tremendous faith in the skipper and boat they join often ignorantly doing so, they dont know what they dont know, they have no idea how to judge the skippers ability or the seaworthiness of the vessel, or the skippers ability to make prudent decisions.

I have crew currently, nice young Belgium girl, she comments that I'm very conservative in regards to my cruising decisions ie my choice of Anchorages, moving if I'm not comfortable, anchor alarm, reefing early etc....shes mentioned this several times, It always gives me a giggle, I dont see my decisions as conservative, I see them as a result of having my ass handed to me enough to influence my cruising decisions.

I see this often on cruisers forum and associated comments, ignorance through limited experience. Tieing this into this passage, did Greta have enough knowledge, experience to make a prudent decision regarding this passage? Yer sure it worked out but did she really understand the risks involved? obviously Nikki did (I assume) but the others? maybe Riley did in theory?

Alot of faith is shown when inexperienced crew hop on someone's boat regarding the skippers decision making ,past ,present and future.
daletournier is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:22   #1364
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Australia
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 4,578
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Theres Utube reality and then theres reality.
daletournier is offline  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:24   #1365
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,594
Images: 75
Re: La Vagabonde's crossing

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Thats already been tested and proved a failure.. they got rescued and went on to become social forum legends..
we have not yet discussed the benefits of not having an epirb,or any other form of working communication devices, 5g is a very good example of this!!!!!!!!

i do not want to go sailing AND have to wear a tin foil hat
atoll is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Big Splash of La Vagabonde new Outremer 45' Red Herring Multihull Sailboats 14 25-04-2017 13:57
SV La Vagabonde new ride Jadam79 Multihull Sailboats 184 24-10-2016 04:46
La Vagabonde - Hopeful Charity help in Pacific. gypsyvagabond Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 1 12-12-2015 12:35

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.