Bruce or CQR

[Jim Cate]

Just a thought: commercial fishermen don't do anchoring anything like yotties do. They are seldom off the boat whilst anchored and seldom short handed, and almost always (at least here in Australia) have a home dock or mooring to which they usually return after a short stay on the hook.

And my personal observation is that yes, they often have plow style anchors, but here in Oz they are very seldom real CQRs... mostly knock-offs, often of dubious design, but often very large compared to the size of the boat. They don't really care about a few hundred pounds on the bow like we fastidious sailors do!

And (readying myself for the ouslaught) I've observed (especially in Qld waters) a number of anchored prawners drag during very ordinary afternoon thunderstorms. Doesn't seem to bother them much! One of their buddies will come along and pull them off the putty, and the boats are pretty sturdy and mostly not too shiny, so the penalties for dragging are not too severe.

So, all this talk about "fishermen use them so they must be good" isn't a great convincer for me... nor is my own experience with plows.

But one of the great things about the cruising world is that each of us get to make lots of very important (to us) decisions, all on our own... and this has lead to a great diversity of practice amongst us. Honestly, unless you are anchored to windward of me, I don't really care what sort of anchor you use. Should you ask me, I'll answer, but in general it is up to you what you use and how you use it.

We'll be back out on the hook soon now, putting our theories and prejudices to the test once more. Unless you are too close and just upwind of us, come by for a cuppa...

Jim

[RaymondR]

Totally agree with you Jim. My father was a fisherman and I worked with him when I was young and there is no way I would hold fishermen up as examples to be emulated. They are probably the worst "get by" group on the water and in some communities notorious for their bad social and professional behavior.

I have found from experience that the Bruce, or "claw" style anchor provides excellent performance on the Queensland coast with far more reliable setting and re-setting performance than the two plow style anchors I had extensively used in the past.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by newhaul

A couple videos to watch . Steve really puts the CQR through the wringer

https://youtu.be/DF6iiL3KKA4

https://youtu.be/jKHzvfO1UfY

So looks like he was pretty satisfied with how well the genuine CQR did.

Watching the video I was thinking one thing that is different is that I have never power set my CQR. I usually let it go as I'm coming in and drift set.

I have always set it this way (on this boat and the other 5-6 power boats that I owned) but then I have to watch my position for a while to be sure it is set or if I am unsure of the bottom type I might give the rode a few pulls to see if I'm set.

I use quite a bit of scope also more than what he does in the video as I am usually alone in my anchorages or with 2-3 other boats well space.

Only once was there a problem and that was when a large catamaran started dragging toward me during a storm/squall. Luckily I was awake and called him/them on the radio and they quickly came out and got the engines started then reset

[donradcliffe]

My point is that most places any old anchor will do, but there are some specific spots where only the best designs hold. One of those is the Annapolis seawall, where the bottom is some soupy mud, churned up by 100's of anchors dragging across it. It is the closest to your cruising grounds, so you might try it some day. Another good test spot is the Hudson River outside the 79th Street Marina, deep with strong reversing tides. In addition to the hard pan in Bequia's Admiralty Bay and some South Pacific anchorages, I still remember the loose coral rubble of the Saints.

Then there was the eel grass in the Med, where sometimes I had to dive and work the point of my anchor down past the root structures while the admiral backed down. I remember snorkeling on my anchor in Izmir, then going over to look at an Australian Valiant 42. Their 75 lb CQR was lying on its side, and the boat was being held by the weight of its chain. The first time I saw this boat was in Indonesia, where I had to go help reset the CQR after it dragged. We parted company after the Panama Canal, and they lost the boat on a reef in the Galapagos after dragging one final time.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

My point is that most places any old anchor will do, but there are some specific spots where only the best designs hold. One of those is the Annapolis seawall, where the bottom is some soupy mud, churned up by 100's of anchors dragging across it. It is the closest to your cruising grounds, so you might try it some day. Another good test spot is the Hudson River outside the 79th Street Marina, deep with strong reversing tides. In addition to the hard pan in Bequia's Admiralty Bay and some South Pacific anchorages, I still remember the loose coral rubble of the Saints.

Then there was the eel grass in the Med, where sometimes I had to dive and work the point of my anchor down past the root structures while the admiral backed down. I remember snorkeling on my anchor in Izmir, then going over to look at an Australian Valiant 42. Their 75 lb CQR was lying on its side, and the boat was being held by the weight of its chain. The first time I saw this boat was in Indonesia, where I had to go help reset the CQR after it dragged. We parted company after the Panama Canal, and they lost the boat on a reef in the Galapagos after dragging one final time.

No doubt there will be place where my CQR will probably not hold but for the last 10 years here and maybe for the next 3-4, it should be fine because I won't be leaving yet.

When I do head out to new cruising grounds I may be able to pickup some sort of new gen anchor (or boat with a new gen anchor) as I'm thinking many Boomers that bought boats to cruise recently will by then be ready to sell.

People are buying boats like crazy. Any old thing for sale on yachtworld seems to have been sold in this area

[boatman61]

[QUOTE=thomm225;348277

People are buying boats like crazy. Any old thing for sale on yachtworld seems to have been sold in this area[/QUOTE]

Its the Preppers...
There are reports sea levels may be rising..

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its the Preppers...
There are reports sea levels may be rising..

Maybe they should move to the mountains instead........the Smokies here are beautiful especially in the season coming up.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

No doubt there will be place where my CQR will probably not hold but for the last 10 years here and maybe for the next 3-4, it should be fine because I won't be leaving yet.

When I do head out to new cruising grounds I may be able to pickup some sort of new gen anchor (or boat with a new gen anchor) as I'm thinking many Boomers that bought boats to cruise recently will by then be ready to sell.

People are buying boats like crazy. Any old thing for sale on yachtworld seems to have been sold in this area

Take advantage of the "I'm not in a rush" thing and start keeping your eyes out for a good deal now. Things are always cheaper when you need it "eventually" instead of "now".

[bgallinger]

Mantus and/or Rocna. Period.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

Mantus and/or Rocna. Period.

Personally I would reconsider that recommendation.

[Amapola]

We finally retired our Bruce and bought a Mantus. Wish I had done it sooner.

[newhaul]

Steve just posted this video

https://youtu.be/aW2OFn-1uak

[Cheechako]

The real test of an anchor is not a straight pull, they all mostly hold in that test , although some far better than others. The real world test is a 90 and 180 pull direction shift. That's what matters.

There's a reason Bruce are usually sized bigger for your boat, they move through the sand quite well under strong pull. I personally helped save a Westsail 32 in La Paz 2 times and watched others do it also. Sand bottom, tide changes pull direction a few times a day. The owners were always ashore, working IIRC. The anchor was functioning as planned, two issues:
-Pulling through the sand. Once moving it can move along at a pretty good clip.
-The chain has a tendency to tangle/grab the little tip on either side quite well when direction reverses. It's weird, doesn't really look like it would do that.

I dont like CQR's, but even my CQR held sitting right along side that boat in those conditions. Both had all chain rode.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The real test of an anchor is not a straight pull, they all mostly hold in that test , although some far better than others. The real world test is a 90 and 180 pull direction shift. That's what matters.

There's a reason Bruce are usually sized bigger for your boat, they move through the sand quite well under strong pull. I personally helped save a Westsail 32 in La Paz 2 times and watched others do it also. Sand bottom, tide changes pull direction a few times a day. The owners were always ashore, working IIRC. The anchor was functioning as planned, two issues:
-Pulling through the sand. Once moving it can move along at a pretty good clip.
-The chain has a tendency to tangle/grab the little tip on either side quite well when direction reverses. It's weird, doesn't really look like it would do that.

I dont like CQR's, but even my CQR held sitting right along side that boat in those conditions. Both had all chain rode.

The biggest problem it seems with our CQR's is the tip weight ratio. Wonder about adding some weight . Like filling the tip void with lead

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by newhaul

The biggest problem it seems with our CQR's is the tip weight ratio. Wonder about adding some weight . Like filling the tip void with lead

Yep, the knuckle weighs too much, they tip over, lay on their side and drag in a wind shift.
The weird thing is, in a 90 degree shift, they may hold as the shank flops over and the anchor stays dug sideways!
The Delta solved the weight ratio issue, but wont hold well in the shift. No knuckle.