Bruce or CQR

[newhaul]

All things being said personally I will stay with my genuine CQR 35# on 300 ft of 5/16 chain as my primary on the Stephen Ulysses. With my 11 pound bruce as my stern anchor when I need a stern anchor.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

...But really, after everything's that been written and with Steve's real world testing, it continues to amaze me that anyone would trust their boats and their lives to archaic technology, things that were good in their time but have been surpassed by advances in reality.

Simply seems to me that if I had a choice between "new gen" anchors that have proven to work and are actually lighter for the same holding capacity compared to the old styles that require more weight, I'd choose the former, especially on a small cruising vessel...

Oh, Stu,

I don't know what to say.

I'm one of those guys who trust our boats to archaic technology that was good in its time but has been surpassed by advances.

After all, the winds have gotten stronger, the bottoms softer, and I didn't notice. It's silly of me to keep using old technology just because it works; after all, new technology...New! Oh yeah, we have to have it.

And "old styles that require more weight"? Geez! What have I been thinking? I must have made a huge cognitive error. I thought the trend with these new anchors was to go WAY heavier. My old 44lb Bruce is no longer good enough, I now need a 80lb new technology whatever anchor. How did that happen? Maybe it's global warming.

Look, I get it now. If my old 44lb Bruce can hold in this 50 knots (photo) then just guess what a 80lb new technology could do? Probably hold in 150kts. I gotta upgrade right away! Geez, how could I be so stupid?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Funny.


I took a different "tack" on this thread.


I went out sailing, after being "tempted" to make an inopportune and/or trying to be pithy comment on thomm's OP before I left.


Given what happened on this one since I returned, I'm really glad I behaved myself (for a change ).


But really, after everything's that been written and with Steve's real world testing, it continues to amaze me that anyone would trust their boats and their lives to archaic technology, things that were good in their time but have been surpassed by advances in reality.


Simply seems to me that if I had a choice between "new gen" anchors that have proven to work and are actually lighter for the same holding capacity compared to the old styles that require more weight, I'd choose the former, especially on a small cruising vessel.



But, gosh, I plumb forgot all those thousands of repetitive posts (and videos, on my gosh!) by thomm25 about his glorious anchor system. Now that we've been able to see the rusted hulk that it was, we are all grateful for thomm for sharing the underwater details.


And that he is safe.


Good luck, thomm, hauling a much heavier anchor that you really don't need to do.


Fascinating.
My answer to the OP question: neither. Get a Rocna or any other new gen anchor. Lighter for the same holding and easier on your back.

Actually I didn't know this Steve person until this thread.

He mentioned what a good job a genuine CQR did during testing.

Those have been the results I got also over the last 10 years of using it.

Also, as the CQR was the anchor the PO had on the bow of the boat I figured it would be fine. The boat and that anchor had when last in use spent 2 years cruising from Massachusetts to Florida and the Bahamas.

The PO on his returned didn't quite make it all the way back home and left the boat at a marina near here in 2006. I found it in 2011 still sitting in the same spot and bought it two weeks later for the $2,000 I believe I mentioned before.

I'm still using the CQR but will now be attaching the chain and rode he had for his backup anchor the Bruce knockoff I posted above.

I've never used that Bruce nor have I used any of the other three anchors he had onboard two of which were smaller Danforths.

So at this point I'll continue with this worn 20 lb CQR until I can find a CQR replacement which will either be a 20 lb'er again or a 25 lb'er since they are much easier to find.

I'm hoping to find either for around $100 -$125

I could probably get this one for $125 but it's located too far away.

https://easternshore.craigslist.org/...364060005.html

The good thing about the 25 lb CQR would be that I could get a better workout than with my 20 lb CQR and they are easier to find. Pulling these anchors up by hand when the wind is up and they are buried deep in the mud can be quite the workout at times especially for those of us 65 and older.

Looks like some folks misunderstood my reasoning on the heavier anchor and were again thinking holding potential instead of a better workout.

BtW, the bow dock lines seen in the photo came with the boat.

[thomm225]

As far as my CQR Anchor testing, the toughest place by far was at Kiptopeke.

That is where the ferries used to launch from to cross the lower Chesapeake Bay before the bridge was built. They would go into Little Creek which is where my marina is located now.

The Pocahontas Ferry was one my Dad worked on after he quit farming. I remembered the sandy cliff's when I first sailed back into Kiptopeke in 2012 from riding the ferry when I was 5-6 years old.

On nice days when my mom wasn't working we would sometimes ride the ferry for a round trip to visit my dad since they worked different shifts.

Pictures are from around 2019 at Kiptopeke and the video is from around 1955.

The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel (CBBT) was completed in 1964.

https://www.delmarvanow.com/videos/l...v4CAlg5hI_HVdw

[Panope]

It just so happens that this week's test concerns a 25lb CQR. I would have loved to test against a genuine Bruce of similar size, but all efforts to locate one have failed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKHzvfO1UfY

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Panope

It just so happens that this week's test concerns a 25lb CQR. I would have loved to test against a genuine Bruce of similar size, but all efforts to locate one have failed.

Just popped up on my subscription list for today .
Thank you for all the work you do on this .
Rob SV Stephfen Ulysses
Port Orchard WA

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Panope

It just so happens that this week's test concerns a 25lb CQR. I would have loved to test against a genuine Bruce of similar size, but all efforts to locate one have failed.

Good info.

Thanks.

[blubaju]

CQR is a plough type and that is what it does, had 2 beautiful stainless ones for 10 years, they never let me fully down, same time I was never sure where I'll wake up next morning. I anchor many times on open shore, hence seawind and landwind, hence 180° wind shift, up to force 4, quite shaky in the afternoon.

So not only holding power is important, resetting too!

New boat I shifted to homemade Buegel anchors, I choose a slightly bend and larger fluke.

My favorite is the Spade, but to expensive for me.
Missing this half ring it does not appear the Spade belongs to the same design, but this is why the shank is curved and the flukes have this ear-like style. Very clever design, stowing is much easier.

I love the holding power and the quick reset! No more plowing! Sure resetting needs a few meters, but that is all

https://www.offshoreblue.com/safe/anchor-new.php

[SV__Grace]

I respect your attachment to your anchors and like other posters I wonder what you need from us, but you just might be sharing a scary experience and evaluating among your two choices and that's OK.

However, going with "whatever works," you were in close quarters and needed an anchor that you could trust not to move. The new gen anchors excel at this and will set and reset within their own length, and yours will not reliably do so.

So with your anchors you have to allow yourself more room, simple as that.

If you don't like that reality then get a new gen anchor, they certainly changed my life when they first came out!

Originally Posted by thomm225

So after another night in a narrow spot with maybe 50 yards of space before the depth went to 2' ( I draw 4') with winds near 20 knots most of the night, I was thinking maybe I should replace my rusty chain and possibly use the one off Bruce anchor that came with the boat (along with the CQR on the bow).

The CQR has held in 20 - 30 knots with onshore winds and 2'-3' waves so it has been a good anchor..

The chain attached to the Bruce is heavier and maybe 40' and has never been used nor has the rope rode.

This last time I was in protected waters and went in close to get out of the waves but the wind was still shooting thru there and I was in so close I had very little space as the boat turned circles with the tide.

It gives you things to consider at 11, 12, 1 am, 2am, and 3am as you continue to wakeup with the rope rode stretching and moving on the bow.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, Thomm, enlighten us: what is the point of this thread?

You show us photos of decrepit, rusty anchoring gear, complete with two badly rusted but un-moused shackles, you laud this gears performance over a ten year period, yet you contemplate changing to a different setup.

You are apparently not interested in the more or less objective data that Panope has posted on the pros and cons of several anchor designs. You dismiss other cruiser's comments about what constitutes a standard that a cruiser's ground tackle must meet, and in the past you have insisted that setting an anchor is not a part of good practice.

So, what do you want from us? There are plenty of folks on CF with a lot of anchoring experience who are willing to help, but we can't tell how to do it.

It is confusing.

Jim

Good summation Jim. Next time you have an opinion I wish you wouldn’t beat around the bush.

OMG! Another anchor thread.

I don’t see any difference in where you anchor or how you cruise. It’s simply not OK to expect to drag sometimes. We have a Rocna 54 Kilo and a Bruce 54# secondary. Bruce has been a good kedge on good bottom. The CQR 74# failed to set throughout our fist cruise season 1:5. It was both too small and woefully inferior old tech. In the end, I couldn’t even sell it. It’s now a mooring for my Tornado beach cat.

The Rocna has only ever failed on a flat stone sheet of old coral bottom or the boulder piles in Faulmouth, Antigua. It held our 40 ton whale in Newport during a glancing hurricane blow, 48 knots.

There is a great amount of objective, believable comparison on various anchors. You can operate with a lot of decrepit stuff but the anchor is not on that list. When we see (rarely now) a vessel with a CQR looking for a place to anchor we worry he might drop ahead or nearby. They frequently take three or more attempts to set.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

I respect your attachment to your anchors and like other posters I wonder what you need from us, but you just might be sharing a scary experience and evaluating among your two choices and that's OK.

However, going with "whatever works," you were in close quarters and needed an anchor that you could trust not to move. The new gen anchors excel at this and will set and reset within their own length, and yours will not reliably do so.

So with your anchors you have to allow yourself more room, simple as that.

If you don't like that reality then get a new gen anchor, they certainly changed my life when they first came out!

So far over these last 10 years, my anchor, the PO's original CQR, chain, and rode have held fine except on 2 occasions over 10 years. No dragging.

I didn't have much room to drag the other night anyway. I was way up in Back River trying to get out of the wind. I was inside channel marker 25 and getting on close to 27 the last marker. I draw 4'

http://fishing-app.gpsnauticalcharts....0829/-76.3206

I was in a very bad spot in about the same area both times. Both times the wind turned SE and brought in ocean waves that started to break and soon were breaking over the side of the boat drenching me.. Also the rode was holding the boat and the boat was being forced away from the anchor. Rope rode was to leeward.

This area is one part mud but changes to sand and must have some hard clay or something also. It's behind a barrier island.....actually on the edge of a barrier Island

I spent time trying to swing the boat around at 3 am which may have caused problems for the anchor's holding. I really didn't want to move in the conditions in the dark but ended up having to anyway and it wasn't easy as I had to dodge the pilings for multiple fish traps that extend several hundred yards out into the bay.

I was able to get re-anchored in 25' of water though between pilings and got back to sleep around 0430.

Most spots where I anchor here the boat rotates thru two tide cycles which is about every 6 hours and the anchor has always handled that. The two times I had trouble I was out of the current. Once with 1' of water under the keel and the other time 3'

So I did decided to go ahead and replace the chain and rope rode on the CQR with the new stuff that was attached to the backup Bruce.

I plan to use a wire brush on the old chain then attach that to the Bruce for backup along with the old rope rode.

[MAJICDAN]

I have sold my old Bruce and CQR. I did not realize how unreliable they were until I bought my Mantus. I usually travel 5-6000 miles a year. I only go to a dock for fuel. I always anchor out. I have been at anchor with my Mantus anchor and Mantus bridle in winds of over 70 mph with gusts of 90 or more. I am very happy with the performance of my Mantus.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by MAJICDAN

I have sold my old Bruce and CQR. I did not realize how unreliable they were until I bought my Mantus. I usually travel 5-6000 miles a year. I only go to a dock for fuel. I always anchor out. I have been at anchor with my Mantus anchor and Mantus bridle in winds of over 70 mph with gusts of 90 or more. I am very happy with the performance of my Mantus.

Looks like the Mantus and CQR 26 (25?) had about the same rating in the video above that was posted. Not sure which one you have. I'm using a 20 lb old CQR which works well here.

I may have to change when I start cruising say more that 300 miles from my location South. I lived 250 miles South of here and my old anchors worked fine there

Near here.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/US...!4d-77.0293054

I was an ATC radar/IFF tech there back in the day. We could see sailboats heading North and South along the ICW all the time.

The runway was that steel matting and was only 3900' but F4's, A6's, A7's and of course Harriers all used it. Plus c-130 transports but they had to have rockets to get back up.

The steel matting was for a quick setup runway. My unit was deployable with all power being supplied by large generators putting out three phase , 400 HZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnlgHqmXXgM

[Mickeyrouse]

One guaranteed way to start a heated discussion around here is to advocate one anchor over the other.
I can only offer this: our boat has a design weight of 20k lbs, empty and dry. Probably 6k-plus more when loaded for cruising, within the range for a 35 lb. CQR. With 70 ft of 3/8” chain, we drug that anchor almost everywhere it dropped from Brownsville, Texas to Roque Island, Maine. I replaced it with a Fortress FX-23. In the 17 years since, the FX-23 has drug twice: once when fouled on a piece of hurricane-blown sheet metal, and once when the wind shifted suddenly when the anchor was in an oyster bed. And the second fault was as much anchorer as anchor.
Before the FX-23 came on board, a Danforth 20 repeatedly held where the CQR drug.
Draw your own conclusions.

[Hermia II]

I've used the CQR as a full time charter skipper for a couple of years, my current yacht had a CQR. Many times i have snorkeled to check how it set. The CQR is farmer technology of 1950 vintage. After that I have used Lewmar Delta, which was o'kay but obstructed my bowsprit. I have used Bruce on my previous boat (a Gallant 53) and now on this, since seven years. In my opinion the Bruce anchor is the best. I really love it and I never had a problem with it. Maybe if you are on a thick Kelp bottom, you would need more Arrowlike type like a Delta or Rochna, other than that it is all Bruce in my book.