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Old 07-09-2021, 15:35   #1
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Bruce or CQR

So after another night in a narrow spot with maybe 50 yards of space before the depth went to 2' ( I draw 4') with winds near 20 knots most of the night, I was thinking maybe I should replace my rusty chain and possibly use the one off Bruce anchor that came with the boat (along with the CQR on the bow).

The CQR has held in 20 - 30 knots with onshore winds and 2'-3' waves so it has been a good anchor..

The chain attached to the Bruce is heavier and maybe 40' and has never been used nor has the rope rode.

This last time I was in protected waters and went in close to get out of the waves but the wind was still shooting thru there and I was in so close I had very little space as the boat turned circles with the tide.

It gives you things to consider at 11, 12, 1 am, 2am, and 3am as you continue to wakeup with the rope rode stretching and moving on the bow.
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Old 07-09-2021, 15:40   #2
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Re: Bruce or CQR

There are many options of Anchors both Bruce and Clyde are very old technology.
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Old 07-09-2021, 15:43   #3
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Re: Bruce or CQR

Used a CQR for years as my primary. Drug a few times. Have a Bruce I used briefly but had trouble getting it to set in grass and some other bottom types.

Both now live in the garage and I use a Mantus with a Rocna for backup. No comparison. Why trust your boat to old technology when much better options are available. Not the place to save money.
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Old 07-09-2021, 16:38   #4
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Re: Bruce or CQR

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Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Used a CQR for years as my primary. Drug a few times. Have a Bruce I used briefly but had trouble getting it to set in grass and some other bottom types.

Both now live in the garage and I use a Mantus with a Rocna for backup. No comparison. Why trust your boat to old technology when much better options are available. Not the place to save money.
Well it's not about saving money it's just about what gets the job done.

I figured I had a mud bottom there at 1am in the creek I was in but I have a swivel and some old shackle the PO attached and that has been my savior for the last 10 years when I anchored in some very exposed places with heavy onshore winds so I hate to just change it out.

But when it's blowing and you are laying there thinking about the consequences of a drag or break with almost no room it makes you consider the what if's. Happens every time.

The chain on the Bruce is new, galvanized, and clean. The shackles are new/never used and galvanized.

Maybe I'll just move the CQR to the new chain and rode minus the swivel.

I did replace that rusted shackle last year and when I cut it off it was 2% rust and 98% pure metal.
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Old 07-09-2021, 16:45   #5
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Re: Bruce or CQR

If you feel “it’s not about saving money, it’s about what gets the job done”

Then look through this thread and research his videos.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-155412.html

Sam
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Old 07-09-2021, 16:51   #6
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Re: Bruce or CQR

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Originally Posted by Sam Woodbridge View Post
If you feel “it’s not about saving money, it’s about what gets the job done”

Then look through this thread and research his videos.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-155412.html

Sam
751 posts!

No thanks.

I pretty much knew what the bottom was so I just had to convince myself to trust my equipment.

I washed the black gooey (now dried out) mud off the anchor, chain, and, foredeck tonight while I was trying to get my batteries charged back above 10.7 volts. Inverter low voltage alarm went off that same night so I ran the Dc fan afterward even though it is louder.

The mud is the same as when oystering on seaside here which was what I thought even though I was on bayside due West of the Chesapeake Bay entrance maybe 15 miles in.

Came in with autopilot with analog voltage gauge showing nothing. It starts at around 11 volts. My 65 and 50 watt panels helped a little but it was a cloudy day.

pilot was slow.....due to low voltage but still worked as did the fan and VHF

Btw I was in 7' to 12' of water with about 75'-100' of chain and rode out!

Depth changes as the boat swung. and yes, I depended on a lot of scope......chain was very muddy also and I got quite dirty bringing it in.

Just like the previous times in some spots here.

The good news is it removed a lot of the rust...
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Old 07-09-2021, 16:58   #7
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Re: Bruce or CQR

Ah, Thomm225 just look through his YouTube videos and watch the ones your interested in. I wouldn’t find myself reading through 751 posts either!
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Old 07-09-2021, 17:18   #8
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Re: Bruce or CQR

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post

The CQR has held in 20 - 30 knots with onshore winds and 2'-3' waves so it has been a good anchor..
This is the difference in expectations between actual world cruising and bayside gunkholing, and is likely the reason that so many boats still carry around these archaic pieces of gear. They just don't need really good anchors.

We have never once worried about our anchor holding in "20-30" knots of wind. That's not a "good anchor." That's just weekend stuff, or normal afternoon tradewinds. We expect our anchor to hold in 60 - 70 knots, and it has.

THAT'S a good anchor.
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Old 07-09-2021, 17:23   #9
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Re: Bruce or CQR

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This is the difference in expectations between actual world cruising and bayside gunkholing, and is likely the reason that so many boats still carry around these archaic pieces of gear. They just don't need really good anchors.

We have never once worried about our anchor holding in "20-30" knots of wind. That's not a "good anchor." That's just weekend stuff, or normal afternoon tradewinds. We expect our anchor to hold in 60 - 70 knots, and it has.

THAT'S a good anchor.
Nice.

As I said, my old CQR has held in most everything for the last 10 years.

This squall had offshore winds so I didn't mention it because I knew I had 30 miles of Bay behind me.

I got in as close as possible before anchoring but the depth got shallow way out.

A friend of mine said he was almost knocked of a dock nearby with possibly a 50 knot gust.

The anchor held firm. Gunkholing or not



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Old 07-09-2021, 18:27   #10
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Re: Bruce or CQR

So, Thomm, enlighten us: what is the point of this thread?

You show us photos of decrepit, rusty anchoring gear, complete with two badly rusted but un-moused shackles, you laud this gears performance over a ten year period, yet you contemplate changing to a different setup.

You are apparently not interested in the more or less objective data that Panope has posted on the pros and cons of several anchor designs. You dismiss other cruiser's comments about what constitutes a standard that a cruiser's ground tackle must meet, and in the past you have insisted that setting an anchor is not a part of good practice.

So, what do you want from us? There are plenty of folks on CF with a lot of anchoring experience who are willing to help, but we can't tell how to do it.

It is confusing.

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Old 07-09-2021, 19:14   #11
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Re: Bruce or CQR

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
751 posts!

No thanks.

I pretty much knew what the bottom was so I just had to convince myself to trust my equipment.

I washed the black gooey (now dried out) mud off the anchor, chain, and, foredeck tonight while I was trying to get my batteries charged back above 10.7 volts. Inverter low voltage alarm went off that same night so I ran the Dc fan afterward even though it is louder.
As an aside if you've let your batteries get to 10.7v (FLA) then you've actually damaged them and reduced their life significantly!
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Old 07-09-2021, 20:19   #12
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Re: Bruce or CQR

I'm confused, and now cautious given Jim's remarks. What are you asking? Replace that crappy chain, and get an over-sized new-gen anchor. Why would you even consider a Bruce or CQR when there are better anchors now available?
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Old 07-09-2021, 21:21   #13
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Re: Bruce or CQR

Hello Thomm

Chain should be replaced when the galvanizing has failed because the pitting will not be evenly distributed and there will invariably be some links that are weakened considerably.

I will distill Steve/Panope's many videos and posts to a few of comments for your convenience:

The CQR is completely obsolete as it does not reset well when the direction of pull changes and it has poor holding for its size and weight, and requires excessive scope to be effective.

The Bruce, if not genuine, will likely perform poorly because most copies have seemingly minor differences in geometry that reduce holding to a substantial degree. If a genuine Bruce, you have an anchor that will reset well and hold predictably, but that does not hold particularly well for its size (especially) and weight (to a lesser but still significant degree).

Any of the modern anchors would outperform it, notably the Spade, Super Sarca, Sarca Excel, and Mantus.
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Old 07-09-2021, 21:24   #14
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Re: Bruce or CQR

"Well it's not about saving money it's just about what gets the job done."

Thomm, a large part of "the job" of your ground tackle is to allow you to sleep and you've repeatedly said that your gear isn't accomplishing that. So change it, quit second guessing.
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Old 07-09-2021, 22:20   #15
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Re: Bruce or CQR

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Hello Thomm

Chain should be replaced when the galvanizing has failed because the pitting will not be evenly distributed and there will invariably be some links that are weakened considerably.

I will distill Steve/Panope's many videos and posts to a few of comments for your convenience:

The CQR is completely obsolete as it does not reset well when the direction of pull changes and it has poor holding for its size and weight, and requires excessive scope to be effective.

My early test results (6 years ago) of the CQR were indeed poor. However, that anchor was very likely a copy (not genuine).

I have since tested 2 genuine CQR anchors that were in almost NEW condition and the results were much better. Even the RESETS were good. Still not up to the standards of some of the newer anchors, but certainly a decent anchor IN THE SEABEDS THAT I TEST.

I believe these anchors suffer as the hinge wears, thus "opening" the throat angle.

Any of my positive CQR reports will now be accompanied by the words GENUINE and HINGE IN GOOD CONDITION.


The Bruce, if not genuine, will likely perform poorly because most copies have seemingly minor differences in geometry that reduce holding to a substantial degree. If a genuine Bruce, you have anchor that will reset well and hold predictably, but that does not hold particularly well for its size (especially) and weight (to a lesser but still significant degree).

This is spot on.

Yesterday, I completed testing of a 10kg LEWMAR CLAW (Bruce Copy). It was shockingly poor in the SANDY MUD and CLEAN(ish) SAND, while being surprisingly good in the SOFT MUD.

As I have found with EVERY "copy" anchor (except FORTRESS (a Danforth copy)), they do not perform nearly as well as the original.


Any of the modern anchors would outperform it, notably the Spade, Super Sarca, Sarca Excel, and Mantus.

Agree.
Steve
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