Cutter sail names

[AmzngGrace]

I picked up a cutter, a Crealock 37. I need to acquire the sail behind the jib. I want to be on the same page as everybody else and so I went to ASA’s website and here’s what they call the sails on a cutter in the front. Do you all agree?

“Although it has gone through some changes through the course of history, the modern cutter rig is generally a set-up with two headsails. The forward sail is called the yankee and the one slightly behind it is the staysail.”

It seems like I am hearing several other terms as well. Is it just one of those boat things that there is no real right answer?

[Muaddib1116]

That seems to be the generally used term. I've heard a lot of Europeans just call it the "cutter sail" though. A Yankee, though, is a somewhat specific type of high cut jib, not a generic term for the front sail. In general staysails are cut between 90% and 110% and the jib is usually a Genoa or a Yankee.

[skipmac]

Agree.

The general term for the front sail is jib, the one farther back is the staysail.

A Yankee is a specific kind of jib that has a high clew. This is common on cutter rigs but you can use another kind of jib just as well.

[Yellowtulip]

I've never heard the term "cutter sail". The word Yankee is an adjective, as in Yankee jib, meaning a very high cut foresail. Can a jib be a Genoa? I thought the definition of jib is a sail that is no bigger than the foretriangle. A Genoa overlaps the mainsail by some degree. I suppose if you define a jib as the foremost headsail then it can be a Genoa.

[AmzngGrace]

Yay! I love conversations like this. We’re going to figure it out eventually.

[Dsanduril]

“Genoa” is just as much an adjective, in proper use, as Yankee. A Genoa jib is one that is > 100% foretriangle and is named for its first use in a regatta off, you guessed it, Genoa.

A “jib” is technically any triangular sail set forward of the foremost mast, so the staysail is a jib. In common yachting the staysail is the inner jib and the forward jib is just the jib, or Genoa, or headsail depending on where you are and your rig. Then, of course, there’s the Solent jib to confuse things....

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

“Genoa” is just as much an adjective, in proper use, as Yankee. A Genoa jib is one that is > 100% foretriangle and is named for its first use in a regatta off, you guessed it, Genoa.

A “jib” is technically any triangular sail set forward of the foremost mast, so the staysail is a jib. In common yachting the staysail is the inner jib and the forward jib is just the jib, or Genoa, or headsail depending on where you are and your rig. Then, of course, there’s the Solent jib to confuse things....

I would agree with this as the commonly used meaning of the words. To me a Jib is any triangular sail set on a stay forward of the main. Could be a Genoa, Yankee or a few other variations.

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Then, of course, there’s the Solent jib to confuse things....

Well don't leave us hanging: what defines the Solent jib?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Well don't leave us hanging: what defines the Solent jib?

Solent stay is similar to a staysail stay as both are forestays that are inside the main forestay. Difference is the Solent stay goes from the masthead to just little aft of the forestay but the staysail stay goes from farther down the mast and farther aft on the deck.

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Solent stay is similar to a staysail stay as both are forestays that are inside the main forestay. Difference is the Solent stay goes from the masthead to just little aft of the forestay but the staysail stay goes from farther down the mast and farther aft on the deck.

So I'm picturing the solent stay is parallel to the forestay and just inside it, both top and bottom. In that case - why is it separate from the forestay? It seems to me any sail you would bend to the solent stay could just as easily be bent on the forestay? What am I missing?

Also, wouldn't the solent stay get in the way of any sails bent on the forestay? Is it removable?

I'm sure I could just google it, but this is more fun

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

So I'm picturing the solent stay is parallel to the forestay and just inside it, both top and bottom. In that case - why is it separate from the forestay? It seems to me any sail you would bend to the solent stay could just as easily be bent on the forestay? What am I missing?

Also, wouldn't the solent stay get in the way of any sails bent on the forestay? Is it removable?

I'm sure I could just google it, but this is more fun

Not parallel with the forestay or staysail stay. The Solent stay attaches to the top of the mast more or less next to the forestay but goes to the deck a little aft of the bow. Makes a long, skinny triangle with the forestay with the point at the top.

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Not parallel with the forestay or staysail stay. The Solent stay attaches to the top of the mast more or less next to the forestay but goes to the deck a little aft of the bow. Makes a long, skinny triangle with the forestay with the point at the top.

Ah, so I guess you would only have one on a boat whose forestay is extended out on a sprit? (I guess that is universal on cutters) On my boat, the forestay comes down right to the stem, so having the solent stay "a little aft of the bow" wouldn't make the triangle look very different than that of the forestay.

[Montanan]

Fore triangle distinction. Cutter versus solent rig.

As for types of cut, please don't confuse a Yankee with a Damned Yankee

One has a clew [high] and the other may just be clueless.

[JebLostInSpace]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Fore triangle distinction. Cutter versus solent rig.

As for types of cut, please don't confuse a Yankee with a Damned Yankee

One has a clew [high] and the other may just be clueless.

Okay now I'm confused again... On the solent rig in your diagram, the foretriangle produced by the forestay looks essentially identical to the foretriangle produced by the solent stay. The two stays are parallel and very close together. So what is the purpose of the solent stay? Why would you bend a sail to that instead of to the forestay?

Also, can confirm: I'm a damned yankee, and I'm 100% clueless (clew-less?)

Another also: back to the original question of the post - what is the trade-off when selecting the forward-most sail on a cutter. The Yankee has the high-cut clew vs. the Genoa with a lower-cut clew. Why would you choose one over the other?

Loving this discussion of the cutter rig options. I'm pretty sure I want one for my next boat, so excited to learn some of the nuances - thanks!

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

Okay now I'm confused again... On the solent rig in your diagram, the foretriangle produced by the forestay looks essentially identical to the foretriangle produced by the solent stay. The two stays are parallel and very close together. So what is the purpose of the solent stay? Why would you bend a sail to that instead of to the forestay?

The idea is that you can either have 2 sails on furlers, or 1 on a furler and 1 hank on, allowing you to change headsails without having to remove the one you'd normally keep on a furler. Some solent stays are designed to be moved out of the way when not in use, avoiding the need to furl the forward headsail to tack. With a solent rig, you only use one headsail at a time. The cutter can use both together.