Captain's License vs ASA 105 course

[seattle_sailor]

Hi Jules,

Although I can't compare the ASA 105 to the USCG Captains license yet I will provide my prespective passing ASA 105.

Last October 2023, I took the ASA 105/106/114 with San Juan Sailing out of Bellingham, WA. * besides being a happy customer I have no affiliation with them.
https://www.sanjuansailing.com/instr...ran-learn.html

This was a 6 day Saturday (8:30AM) - Friday (11AM) liveaboard course on a catamaran so we each had our own birth.

Fountaine Pajot Lipari 41
https://sanjuansailing.com/charter-d...dex.php?id=134

Reading the owners notes for this boat taught me a lot about the boat prior to boarding it.
https://sanjuansailing.com/charter-d...ners_notes.pdf

The ASA 105 was primarily a self study course. Prior to arriving I studied about 30 hours for this course.

Study Materials:
Coastal Navigation & Piloting (Tursi) or Coastal Navigation Manual (Pyzel)

Personally I purchased both and I found the videos lectures from Tom Tursi to be helpful and the Pyzel manual to be more logical and compact.

USCG Navigation Rules & Regulations Handbook
USCG Light ListLocal Notice to Mariners
U.S. Chart No. 1


Most 105 courses use the following chart. I purchased 2 of them and make sure to order these charts withough Loran.
1210TR_NL Marthas Vineyard To Block Island No Loran Training Chart
https://www.nauticalchartsonline.com...Training-Chart


Most importantly I focused on the following items:

Rules of the Road
Navigating, Piloting and Charts
Dead Rckoning, Bearings, Fixes, and Running Fixes
Bearing Convertions (TVMDC)
Correcting Course for Current / Leeway (Set & Drift Problems)
Tides and Tidal Currents

If you can go through the practice problems at the back of the book you can pass the ASA 105 paper exam.

After passing the paper exam we sailed daily around the San Juan Islands each day using only paper charts, pencil, a white drafting eraser, hand bearing compass, parallel rule, Dividers, Binoculars, and a watch.

The highlights of this course and destination were:
The San Juan Islands and Mt Baker are naturally amazing.
There are a lot of obsticals/rocks in the San Juan Islands to navigate around.
With a 12ft tidal range and strong currents this was a great location to practice.
There are a lot of lighted navigation aids and shipping channels which was great for our night navigation portion.
There was a day where we could only see 50-200ft due to fog which was for perfect for using Radar and AIS.
During the 3rd day we planned a route and sailing that route at night as a team while taking a 3 point fixes from navigational lights at night and LOPs which was unforgetable.

We sailed from Shaw Island across the Rosario Straight, through Thatcher Pass, up the Bellingham Channel, Circumnavigating Sinclair Island and last picking up a mooring ball in Eagle harbour at 6am. Only the instructor used Navionics on his phone to monitor our progress and the students navigated completly without a chart plotter.

So overall I think that the ASA 105 course is an excellent course and I am now working toward seatime for the USCG Captains license. Also I can't say enough good things about this course, San Juan Sailing, and our instructor Kurt Campbell.

Good luck,
Patrick

ASA syllabus for each course:
https://asa.com/certifications/asa-1...al-navigation/
https://asa.com/certifications/asa-1...stal-cruising/
https://asa.com/certifications/asa-1...ing-catamaran/

[donradcliffe]

I bought a study book and passed the 100 ton license exams. The most valuable for me was the rules of the road. I have not taken any ASA or RYA courses, but I would guess that the coast guard rules of the road is more stringent. Even then, I was not prepared for the first time a ship overtook me in a narrow channel under inland rules. After doing the Great Loop, I now know what two whistles means in my sleep.

Plotting and navigation is probably the same under both systems, but paper charts are buggy whips. I know how to paper plot my course in a current, but I'm going to focus on the important stuff and let the chart plotter do the tedious work, especially at night or in the fog. What's my backup plan? If the boat's system fails, I pull out my cell phone with Navionics, and I have done that on multiple deliveries. I know celestial, but I also know how to run a SSB radio.\

If you are getting older, one of the important considerations for the Coast Guard license is the medical testing. The USCG medical treats you like a 747 pilot. I surrendered my license because I was not going to pay for testing which was not medically required. Fortunately the USCG will give you a frameable copy of your license without an expiration date, and most insurance companies understand that you are not going to forget all you learned to get an active license.

[gbillman]

Having taught both ASA and USCG, I'd say signing on to an actual at-sea off shore passage course is what you are looking for. If you have been sailing for 17 years, and assuming you've accumulated the general navigation, handling, etc knowledge in that time, I think your skills would be honed and expanded with actual off-shore cruising experience with a good skipper/instructor.

ASA is good for basic book knowledge. USCG is a must for being a professional mariner (6 pack and tonnage certs)...and it basically proves your book knowledge and accumulated sea time.

Just my 2 cents...

[Peeew]

I think that although both courses do overlap there are significant differences. The USCG test covers a lot of rules etc that the ASA courses don’t. And the technical boat design etc are great background. Both will give you more navigation knowledge. But nothing will serve you better than going out sailing! Especially if you keep a book handy for reference when you see lights or dayshapes etc that are new to you. I am an ASA instructor and a 100ton master and I think the ASA might be more fun but the captains course is more thorough. And if you are worried about the liability issue you can take the course, use the completion certificate for any insurance break, and not bother with requesting the license. This way you can skip the medical, fingerprinting etc and save some money if you don’t plan on getting paid to captain boats.

[CaptJimFrei]

I recommend you join your local US Power Squadron and take all of their navigation and piloting courses, then go for the USCG captain's (6-pack/ OUPV) license. Having a master's license or towing endorsement opens up more paying opportunities, but not needed if you don't want to go there. There are many certified schools that provide the 6-pack study and exam. I went thru Sea School out of Charleston SC; they do weekend classes all over the east coast.

For extra fun, join your local USCG Auxiliary flotilla. You can get trained as boat crew then Coxswain and use your own vessel for on-water safety patrols.

With the OUPV license you can take up to 6 paying passengers - gotta support your boat habit some how, right????

If you plan to bareboat charter in Europe, you need the ASA105 iirc.

To bareboat charter in the Caribbean, you just need a credit card.

[OS2Dude]

Unless you have an absolute NEED for a Captain's License, I'd steer clear. Holding a Captain's License has legal repercussions active 24/7/365, your boat or not. You WILL be held to a higher standard in case of an accident, even though you may not be in command or even when a non-licensed person may not be considered to be at fault.

[sinnerman]

The ASA courses are for recreational sailors.

The ASA 105 coastal navigation course uses the books from the Maryland School of Sailing & Seamanship (also an ASA school).
Maryland School of Sailing; Chesapeake, Caribbean, Atlantic Ocean, Bermuda

You can find YouTube videos on line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dWw...Qpxs9UE1FvOGt8

USCG license allows you to do commercial work.

Liabilities and responsibilities of the captain are obviously much higher

my two cents

cheers

[BocaIII]

I have 100 ton captains license which is a requirement as a Florida saltwater fishing guide
If you dont plan to engage in commercial activity requiring USCG license, its a waste of time for your objective,

You got a lot of good suggestions on NAV courses from previous posts, I would follow those suggestions.
Good Luck

Capt Jack

[nonav]

Originally Posted by stormalong

I too am not familiar with the ASA 105 course. I took the USCG course and got my 100 ton license in 2005. Back then the navigation portion of the exam was all about coastal navigation and plotting on paper charts. I don't know if that has changed.

If the ASA 105 covers electronic navigation - chart plotters and even GPS navigation it would cover more than the OUPV material. The basic plotting is important, every captain should be able to navigate manually but today's electronic navigation has become commonplace.

Got my 100 Ton a couple of years ago, and the Nav portion is still coastal plotting on a paper chart.

There was talk of chart work being dropped, and showing the ability to use a GPS to qualify for the license.

That’s great, when your electronics are functioning!

The liability issue is certainly something to consider, and I’ll guess a Maritime Tribunal to be scarier than civil court, or criminal court.

[nonav]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

Unless you have an absolute NEED for a Captain's License, I'd steer clear. Holding a Captain's License has legal repercussions active 24/7/365, your boat or not. You WILL be held to a higher standard in case of an accident, even though you may not be in command or even when a non-licensed person may not be considered to be at fault.

Are you sure about this?

We were told that if you are a guest aboard somebody’s boat, not hired on as a captain, to keep your mouth shut about your license.

That said, there are only a few boats I’m on where it feels safe not to be on watch the entire time.

It’s nice to feel safe enough to sleep with both eyes closed!

[ccanupii]

Honestly, if you are looking to get navigation knowledge to help out, check with your local clubs, boatus and others to see if there are classes they give. If you are going to be the one making the passage planning, then yes, go for the official classes.

[MC2019]

Well I have my 200 ton captains license, have been a past ASA, ussailing instructor, currently a nauticed.org sailing instructor. Unless you going to do some commercial stuff, just doing the ASA route would work.

Consider nauticed.org to

The USCG route is a big effort compared to sailing credentials .....

stepping off the podium

Originally Posted by Julesmic

Hi everyone, this is my first post and I hope it doesn't sound ridiculous as I may be comparing apples to oranges... I recently retired (early) so that my husband and I could spend more time together and live aboard our boat for a few months at a time. We've owned our own sailboat now for 17 years and sailed quite a bit together off coastal New England, with me being a fairly good first mate. In preparation for our next adventures I want to build my navigation skills (most important) and seamanship, generally. My initial plan was to study for the OUPV Captain's License but my husband thinks that the ASA105 course would fulfill my needs. I'm leaning towards the Captains License as I think it would give me more comprehensive learning and also cover the navigational learning that I desire. I also did read the comments in another thread about Starpath and perhaps that is also an option? I'm not concerned about stickers or pieces of paper - this is all about building my skills and confidence. Any guidance most appreciated!

[EmeraldCoastSailor]

Totally apples to cheesesteak sandwich comparison. IMHO, getting a captain’s license is more appropriate for people who might get paid money in the future. If not, then why learn all the gory details that a captain is required to know to pass the test (and that you won’t need for coastal cruising).

I am familiar with ASA and USCG education and the ASA courses are far more relevant for what I think you are going to do. I thirsted for more knowledge so I went well beyond 105 with other ASA courses, which were terrific fun as compared to what it takes to get a six pack. Or try US Sailing, especially if you are into racing.

One more thing that may sound controversial; if you have a USCG captain license and have an “incident” it very much, at least theoretically, can become a federal issue with a levels of investigation appropriate for situations where captains are taking people out on the water for money. A USCG captain who made his living on the water once told me I was crazy for getting my captain’s license if I was never planning to take people out for $.

[Donald R]

I am certified thru ASA 104 and have a friend who has a CSG 6 pack license. In our conversations comparing the two I felt that the ASA route offered more specific training and testing for sailors including actual boat time testing once you get to the ASA 103 -104 level. You can also try to “test out” of some of the pre-requisite courses to speed up the process. Not really saying that the captains license is the wrong way to go,. Just giving my input on the ASA experience I had.

[sailcrazy]

Like you, we've had our 43'Taswell sailboat (purchased in Singapore) for a lot of years. We've sailed Asia (lived in the Philippines for 11 years!), and spent a couple of years in Thailand and in Phuket. But when we got to the Medd, some of the countries required a "Bare Boat" certificate to check in. As an airline pilot I understood navigation and radar, and...but had no "paper" to prove it. Took the ASA courses(self study) wrote the exams, and was received my "Bare Boat" license. The countries we visited were happy, I did learn some, and the square was filled. Unless you intend to go into business(Charter, etc)...ASA is the way to go. Practice bleeding is not required!