Captain's License vs ASA 105 course

[Eder]

I think perhaps taking an offshore course would be more practical and do more to improve your confidence. Paper charts are pretty much the way of the SSB. There are so many redundant ways to navigate...none that require an old chart. jmo


{oh I did the ASA 105 many moons ago never used the skill aquired}

[davefromoregon]

Here is the description of ASA 105.it still feels pretty paper oriented : https://asa.com/certifications/asa-1...al-navigation/

[belizesailor]

(my background: ASA Instructor/Master Instructor/former School Owner, USCG 100 Ton Near Coastal liscence)

First a clarifying qeustion. In addition to coastal navigation, which areas of your knowledge/skills do you want to improve?

ASA 105 (Costal Navigation) only covers Traditional Coastal Piloting (non-electronic). There is a lot to learn in this subject area and 105 is a good, but challenging, introduction.

The knowledge required to pass any USCG liscencing exam is much broader in scope than just 105. The exam will certainly cover some navigation subjects, but also a MUCH broader range of subject matter. I suggest you review the requirements and decide whether the preparation for the exam covers the subjects that apply to your situation. Note that you dont need a USCG liscence for any type of recreational boating. You only need it for commercial use. However, preparing for the exam can be an extensive learning process. You dont have to attend a school, all of the information required to prepare for a USCG exam is public (even the exam questions!).

However, successfully obtaining a USCG liscence may provide you with a good structured learning plan/goal and be a good confidence booster. With 17 years on the water you can qualify for a higher rating than OUPV if you want.

Alternatively, review your situation and choose which subject areas you want to study...then do it. Most maritime knowledge has been around for hundreds of years and is readily available from public sources or private instruction. Choose the subject areas and then decide how you want to go about studying each one of them. Since certification/liscencing is not important to you, you are free to choose what and how you want to study.

Two suggested subject areas where many cruisers are weak is Marine Weather and Boat Handling Under Power. StarPath has an excellent and extensive Marine Weather Class (dont just buy the book, sign up for the full online class...many sailors own that book and have never made it thru it. It is best used as part of the full course). ASA, and other organizations, offer Boat Handling Under Power classes.

While choosing how you want to learn, bear in mind that not all good mariners are good instructors.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Here is the description of ASA 105.it still feels pretty paper oriented : https://asa.com/certifications/asa-1...al-navigation/

100% paper oriented. Its subject area is Traditional Coastal Piloting (all non-electronic).

[dlj]

Let me understand, you have 17 years of coastal cruising experience, want to learn more about navigation primary and sailing skills secondary.

With that kind of experience, what do you feel you want to do that you are not comfortable doing now?

Do you want to learn celestial navigation? Do you want to better understand dead reconning? Do you feel you need more knowledge reading charts (paper or electronic)?

What kind of sailing do you foresee that you may need to improve your general sailing skills?

It seems to me with the experience you have, finding someone to sail with that can directly teach you what you feel you are missing may be the more efficient way to learn.

Just a thought.

dj

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Here is the description of ASA 105.it still feels pretty paper oriented : https://asa.com/certifications/asa-1...al-navigation/

I took 105 and 106 as a combined course, and that is how I would recommend it. Taken like that, 105 becomes a hands on course, working paper charts continuously as you sail for several days, spending nights at anchor and reviewing everything in the evening.

Taking the USCG test afterwards was pretty easy. I would still recommend a self study guide before the USCG test, but most everything, certainly all the charting stuff, was well covered in 105 and 106.

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Passing the USCG Captain's exam requires a good bit of arcane knowledge that the average recreational sailor just never is exposed to. The chances of you passing the test after taking ASA105 are really near zero.

It is FAR more efficient to take a class with a school accredited by the USCG to give the test on site. They will make SURE you have the knowledge required to pass.

The "sailing" endorsement part of the exam is trivial. Anybody with a basic knowledge of how to make a sailboat move efficiently can pass that. It's the general test that is the tough part.

Just as an example, do you know how to do a basic stability calculation? What a metacentric height is? How about a GM?

None of the last three things mentioned here are required learning for an OUPV license. I just took the class.

I thought with the exception of the RULES OF THE ROAD most of the stuff in the OUPV class is not very useful to the average mariner. Based on OLD constructs and ideas. I only did it to get a license to operate a boat for profit.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by massnspace

None of the last three things mentioned here are required learning for an OUPV license. I just took the class.

I thought with the exception of the RULES OF THE ROAD most of the stuff in the OUPV class is not very useful to the average mariner. Based on OLD constructs and ideas. I only did it to get a license to operate a boat for profit.

No, they were not on the tests that I took either, not as I recall anyway. There was a whole chapter on stability of boats in my self study book, however. My guess is that maybe they show up as you increase tonnage rating. My book was sort of a generic covers them all book.

There was stuff on firefighting, towing of vessels, obscure rules of the road, and differences between colregs and inshore rules. But only a small percentage of the test covered those topics. Really, what you need to know are the rules of the road, all of the dayshape and light configurations, and chartwork.

How many people can off the top of their head describe the dayshapes displayed when a dredging rig is working and it is clear to pass on on the starboard side but not the port side? Or all the lights displayed when a vessel over 300ft is towing a barge 1/2 mile behind? ASA doesn't cover those situations.

[Time2Go]

You should also consider RYA Yachtmaster
Cheers
Neil

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

You should also consider RYA Yachtmaster
Cheers
Neil

RYA certainly seems a better option globally, but sadly not as accessible in the USA to get an RYA certification.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I took 105 and 106 as a combined course, and that is how I would recommend it. Taken like that, 105 becomes a hands on course, working paper charts continuously as you sail for several days, spending nights at anchor and reviewing everything in the evening.

Taking the USCG test afterwards was pretty easy. I would still recommend a self study guide before the USCG test, but most everything, certainly all the charting stuff, was well covered in 105 and 106.

Yes, 106 is intended to include the hands on application of 105, so they make a very good combination class...provided students have prepared well in advance. Ideally 106 is delivered in a venue where you get not only the opportunity to use your 105 skills, but also deal with some weather and commercial traffic. I used to deliver this combination on runs between Belize and Guatemala. Great venue for it.

When I was preparing to take my USCG exam, I worked thru many of the navigation related questions in the data base. The questions I drew were all easy questions. However, when I took the actual exam, the navigation question I drew was very involved. Fortunateliy I was already a 105 instructor so I did fine on the question, but it took a long time to work thru.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Yes, 106 is intended to include the hands on application of 105, so they make a very good combination class...provided students have prepared well in advance. Ideally 106 is delivered in a venue where you get not only the opportunity to use your 105 skills, but also deal with some weather and commercial traffic. I used to deliver this combination on runs between Belize and Guatemala. Great venue for it.

When I was preparing to take my USCG exam, I worked thru many of the navigation related questions in the data base. The questions I drew were all easy questions. However, when I took the actual exam, the navigation question I drew was very involved. Fortunateliy I was already a 105 instructor so I did fine on the question, but it took a long time to work thru.

I took it as a 5 day course out of San Francisco Bay (Sausalito), sailing to Drakes Bay for the first night, then circling the Farallon Islands and Staying the second night in Half Moon Bay, then down to Monterey Bay, before returning to Sausalito. It was a great course. The boat had dated electronics so not much on modern navigation, but we did use an old radar to get ranges off land features to plot our course while sailing at night. Even though 5 years passed between that course and my USCG exam, I felt pretty well prepared on the navigation problems, some of which were pretty involved. Not difficult, just had to think through each step of what was being asked.
About half the people were testing for the second time, and very few passed. They probably would have if they took the ASA courses.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I took it as a 5 day course out of San Francisco Bay (Sausalito), sailing to Drakes Bay for the first night, then circling the Farallon Islands and Staying the second night in Half Moon Bay, then down to Monterey Bay, before returning to Sausalito. It was a great course. The boat had dated electronics so not much on modern navigation, but we did use an old radar to get ranges off land features to plot our course while sailing at night. Even though 5 years passed between that course and my USCG exam, I felt pretty well prepared on the navigation problems, some of which were pretty involved. Not difficult, just had to think through each step of what was being asked.
About half the people were testing for the second time, and very few passed. They probably would have if they took the ASA courses.

Excellent!

[Julesmic]

Hi everyone, thanks again for the advice. I also had reached out to a long time friend who is a very experienced delivery captain and he also advised that the coastal navigation would be the way to go for my goals and echoed that the Captain's license schools are primarily focused on making sure you know all the answers to the test. And, if I do have the Captain's license, I can be held responsible if bad things happen on other peoples boats, even if i am just crew or passenger. He also recommended the Coast Guard auxillary course as being very helpful. Ok so I have my work cut out for me. Looking forward to that! Thanks again. You all have been very helpful.

[Portage_bay]

I have been informed by someone far more knowledgable in matters USCG investigations and the CFRs that the bolded statement below is not true. I have never been able to find anything other than dock talk that says he is wrong.

Originally Posted by Julesmic

Hi everyone, thanks again for the advice. I also had reached out to a long time friend who is a very experienced delivery captain and he also advised that the coastal navigation would be the way to go for my goals and echoed that the Captain's license schools are primarily focused on making sure you know all the answers to the test. And, if I do have the Captain's license, I can be held responsible if bad things happen on other peoples boats, even if i am just crew or passenger. He also recommended the Coast Guard auxillary course as being very helpful. Ok so I have my work cut out for me. Looking forward to that! Thanks again. You all have been very helpful.