How do you deal with a bad captain?

[Wrong]

Trying to pull this conversation back to the facts.

What yelling occurred under what circumstances?

And what abuse of any kind is alleged to have occurred?

If I missed it as a matter of course because I was palpitating for the "feel" rather than the alleged facts, there's got to be someone - if it's not the OP - who can enlighten us.

Otherwise this whole exercise is no more than spittle tossed 'round in a vacuum.

[NoQuarter79]

He yelled basically the entire trip. He yelled every order at us, when there was no reason to do so. If it's loud, sure, you need to yell. When it's calm and you're just telling us to pull the line in or whatever, there's no reason to yell.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Now if seaworthy lass had mentioned that some salty old dog had bumped her on the dock and didn't say excuse me, the replies would have been totally different.

All the Salty Dogs I come across fling their coats over puddles for me .

Originally Posted by boatman61

Damn right the 'Tone' is different..
You don't bad mouth 'Moderators' if you fancy hanging around a while..

That's the spirit .

SWL x

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Not only am I off my rocker but I am shaking my cane at all you young pups! Take that dag nabbit! Old captains of the world unite and refuse to teach any more sailing! I'm going to my union rep!

(then digging his toe in the sand a bit) Well, it's not like I have never been wrong...

Oh well, my boat still loves me

I still love you too!

Oh, just remembered, a long time ago we were in a thread about making a hand pump or fitness equipment based watermaker. I think I found something that could make it happen, I'll PM it to you later.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Newt, I too am one of your fans on CF, but I really think you're off your rocker on this one. There is no reason anyone should have to put up with abusive behaviour. And there is a clear difference between "salty banter" and being rude and obnoxious. A captain, or indeed any leader, can command without being a jerk. If they can't, that just makes them a bad captain. Unless you've signed up for the marines, no one should have to put up with someone being abusive.

And your example is telling. First off, it's not abusive to make an urgent command in the face of perceived and imminent danger (as you did). That's not being abusive. Secondly, despite all the Kraken tales to the contrary, we all know that the vast majority of time on a cruising boat is not spent in life-or-death, split second decision-making time. Most of the time there's no need to make instant "Just Do IT!" decisions. And I do find it amusing that in your example you say you didn't have time to explain the situation, when you just did so in one short sentence. I assume this means your crew were so green as to not understand this simple concept?

What most of you are waxing eloquently about are classic bullies. Or they are people who have no concept of effective leadership. Think about how much more you would learn from a good seaman who wasn't abusive?

"not understand this simple concept ?" Perhaps he had "the pucker factor going on" and thought it wise for everyone else to do the same without feeling them with fear or over caution..I could see not finding room for explanation at that time..

[darylat8750]

Read posts: 75, 84, 87. Well written things to consider.

Consider that you may have given off negative vibes to the Capt. without noticing it. Both of my children when in their teenage and young adult lives certainly cranked me up a few times without realizing it.

I also have a large voice. When one of my son's friends was going to take some flight instruction from me I heard my Son tell him "Just because Dad is loud it doesn't mean he's yelling at you or mad. He just yells all the time."

Lastly I can't seem to get past the name you have chosen. "NoQuarter" even if chosen with your "tongue in cheek" keeps jumping out at me as someone who is not willing to cut other people much slack for differences of opinion.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter79

He yelled basically the entire trip. He yelled every order at us, when there was no reason to do so. If it's loud, sure, you need to yell. When it's calm and you're just telling us to pull the line in or whatever, there's no reason to yell.

WHY THE UNMITIGATED GALL OF THAT OLD COOT!! DAMN FOOL SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN YELLING!!..

[NoQuarter79]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

Read posts: 75, 84, 87. Well written things to consider.

Consider that you may have given off negative vibes to the Capt. without noticing it. Both of my children when in their teenage and young adult lives certainly cranked me up a few times without realizing it.

I also have a large voice. When one of my son's friends was going to take some flight instruction from me I heard my Son tell him "Just because Dad is loud it doesn't mean he's yelling at you or mad. He just yells all the time."

Lastly I can't seem to get past the name you have chosen. "NoQuarter" even if chosen with your "tongue in cheek" keeps jumping out at me as someone who is not willing to cut other people much slack for differences of opinion.

We chose the name "No Quarter" for our boat. After reading the definition, which I got as "no mercy" we interpreted it our own way; that we were going to show no mercy to become successful and do whatever we have to do to make it in the sailing world. It's not about people, it's about overcoming our own struggles.

Like I said, under certain circumstances, I can understand yelling. But he wasn't just speaking loudly, he was demeaning about it.

[bill352]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

All the Salty Dogs I come across fling their coats over puddles for me . SWL x

While they're still in them.

Seriously, SWL, even you are not immune. I have seen the word "shrill" used in one of your threads, not that that's a code word or anything.

I think this young lady is taking a little more than her share of abuse. She'd get a lot more support if she complained that the captain wouldn't let her bring her guns on board.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by bill352

. . .
I think this young lady is taking a little more than her share of abuse. She'd get a lot more support if she complained that the captain wouldn't let her bring her guns on board.

This group is 97% captains and only 3% crew, probably. So the first instinct of anyone on here hearing about crew complaining about a captain is naturally going to be critical.

And that's great! Much, much more useful to her, to hear critical remarks, than remarks like "Oh God, how awful! You poor dear! What an awful, awful man!" Just the right crowd to ask such a question, if you ask me.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by bill352

Seriously, SWL, even you are not immune. I have seen the word "shrill" used in one of your threads, not that that's a code word or anything.

LOL, in my early days on CF while crying after reading one particularly harsh response, I was told by my better half that if I wanted to play with the boys I had to learn to take it not just on the chin, but below the belt .

Anyway, the gentleman who made the "shrill" comment and I have made our peace now . I can get a bit too insistent when nonsense is spouted in navigational threads and the "shrill" comment was not inappropriate and not undeserved .

SWL

[Steve1944]

Yeah, well . . . um. Hmmmm

[BlueBuddha]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I haven't been around too long, but I have seen this phenomena before. This is how they treat newbies, especially if they appear to be sensitive and ask something that is based on opinion, like in this thread.





Now if seaworthy lass had mentioned that some salty old dog had bumped her on the dock and didn't say excuse me, the replies would have been totally different. Every single reply would have been some guy offering to kill the rude old bugger for being the scourge of the sailing community and making the entire boating world look like a bunch of hoodlums.



Now the denials will start flying, but the proof is all around. Simply look up any thread started by seaworthy lass (especially one asking for advice or an opinion) and then read all of the replies.



The difference in tone is dramatic. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's a very common occurrence on website forums. Human nature in the online environment, if you will. Most people don't even realize they do it, but I've observed this same thing pretty much everywhere. You observe and start to realize it's the reality of website politics, or group behavior in typed form.

thank you, thank you, thank you. This thread is sad.





Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter79

He yelled basically the entire trip. He yelled every order at us, when there was no reason to do so. If it's loud, sure, you need to yell. When it's calm and you're just telling us to pull the line in or whatever, there's no reason to yell.

He's old. HE'S DEAF!

Or,

Maybe like my Brother he has only an OUTDOOR voice.

Drives me absolutely up the wall.

[BobFord]

Sailing can be very stressful. An experienced Skipper should be able to handle the crew respectfully. Sadly , most of us don't have enough experience !