Ever seen a UFO?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

The very first detectable emission we've sent is still light years away from the nearest star.

Mostly agree with your thoughts Bill, although we would quibble about the stats. We really can't say very much about the odds of life (intelligent or otherwise) showing up on other planets. We currently only have a sample size of one, so we have no way of assessing the odds.

But just to clarify, the nearest star to Sol is about 4 light-years away. There must be thousands of stars within 100 light-years of us. Since we've been emitting electromagnetic signals for a bit over 100 years now, our potential detectable sphere theoretically includes all these stars.

Of course, at about 100,000 light-years in diameter, this is only a tiny corner of our galaxy. And our galaxy is a miniscule drop of sand in a beach of galaxies.

[capn_billl]

The closest star with an Earth sized planet was 100 light years that I had heard of.

But there are 76 known stars within 100 light years.

4.5 light years to Proxima, practically next door.

That means we nearly have the technology to go check it out. A small nuclear powered probe could get there in 50 - 60 years, do a loop, and come back.

I'm not sure how we would get that funded, but I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor whether we find little green men there or not.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

The closest star with an Earth sized planet was 100 light years that I had heard of.

But there are 76 known stars within 100 light years.

4.5 light years to Proxima, practically next door.

That means we nearly have the technology to go check it out. A small nuclear powered probe could get there in 50 - 60 years, do a loop, and come back.

I'm not sure how we would get that funded, but I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor whether we find little green men there or not.

According to this database there are 76 Type A stars within 100 ly of Sol, but there are:

• about 250 giant and supergiant stars
• 4 Type B
• 303 Type F
• 512 Type G
• 947 Type K
• and over 2,000 Type M

Of course, if we're talking stars with Earth-sized planets, the numbers shrink dramatically.

Yes indeed, interstellar travel is certainly possible for us. As I said, we already have two human-made ships traversing interstellar space: Voyager I & II. It just takes a very long time, but it's certainly possible.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by dannc

Yes, they could be balloons but what balloon can do what these objects were doing?

The USS Princeton, a cruiser with very advanced radar, first picked up the Tic Tac and two F18's were sent to investigate.

As described early in the video, around 1:30-3:30 talks about the encounter where the Tic Tac went towards the F18, then maintained formation with the F18. What balloon can maintain formation with a jet aircraft?

Then the Tic Tac disappeared and showed up on the USS Princeton's radar a few minutes later, 60 miles away. What balloon or aircraft can do this?

It is not covered in the video but US Navy ships have seen these things as well. Seeing being sailors using the Mark I eyeball and on the various sensors on the ships. Balloons do not travel at high speed.

Later,
Dan

Oh I understand, it's just that when they say "tic-tacs" I expect to see a white rugby ball. If they said it looked like a silver mylar balloon, then I'd say, yeah, I see what they see.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I generally agree with most of what you say, except I don't think anyone has said interstellar travel violates any laws of physics that we currently know. Demonstrably, it does not, since all sorts of wavy-particles travel the interstellar distances. Heck, we now have two human-made objects (Voyager I & II) traversing interstellar space. No laws have been broken ...

The mission objective of the Voyager Interstellar Mission (VIM) is to extend the NASA exploration of the solar system beyond the neighborhood of the outer planets, to the outer limits of the Sun's sphere of influence, and beyond.
After 40 years, the Voyage 1 is still less than 15 billion miles from Earth.
In about 40,000 years, Voyager 1 will drift within 1.6 light-years (9.3 trillion miles) of AC+79 3888, a star in the constellation of Camelopardalis, which is heading toward the constellation Ophiuchus.
In about 40,000 years, Voyager 2 will pass 1.7 light-years (9.7 trillion miles) from the star Ross 248, and in about 296,000 years, it will pass 4.3 light-years (25 trillion miles) from Sirius, the brightest star in the sky.
However, the Voyagers only have enough electrical power, and thruster fuel, to keep its current suite of science instruments on, until at least 2025. By that time, Voyager 1 will be about 13.8 billion miles (22.1 billion kilometers) from the Sun and Voyager 2 will be 11.4 billion miles (18.4 billion kilometers) away.
Hardly proof that interstellar travel is practical, for any known life form.

[GordMay]

On the other hand:
Jimmy Carter Reported Seeing a UFO [in '69], on this day, in 1973
➥ https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...y-in-1973.html

[jimbunyard]

Not only did Jimmy see (I mean report) one on this day in 1973, they're even showing up on the latest media-wide, (perhaps) sordid, cash-cow 'story'.

Look closely at the sky in this video of the 'lovebirds' from 6:54 to 6:56. Is that a tic-tac I spy?

Helps if you slow down playback speed to .25.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLpyOuqpcPI

Of course, it's really just the moon (I suppose), but in my mind, it's actually the real reason for Ms. Petito's disappearance. You know, alien abduction and all that. Even explains hubby's (or whatever his rating is) reluctance to spill the beans...

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Not only did Jimmy see one on this day in 1973 ...

FWIW: NO.
Jimmy filed a report, with the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP) on September 18, 1973, claiming he had seen an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) in October 1969.

[jimbunyard]

My bad. Fixed it. FWIW...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by GordMay

... By that time, Voyager 1 will be about 13.8 billion miles (22.1 billion kilometers) from the Sun and Voyager 2 will be 11.4 billion miles (18.4 billion kilometers) away.
Hardly proof that interstellar travel is practical, for any known life form.

Agreed. But to be clear, I was point out that interstellar travel does not contravene any known laws of physics as we understand them. The challenge of distance is very real though, which is why I say that while it is very likely there are other intelligent critters out there, it is very UNlikely any of them are visiting us.

[Russian007]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I generally agree with most of what you say, except I don't think anyone has said interstellar travel violates any laws of physics that we currently know. Demonstrably, it does not, since all sorts of wavy-particles travel the interstellar distances. Heck, we now have two human-made objects (Voyager I & II) traversing interstellar space. No laws have been broken .

It is all the "warp speed" concepts which make no sense with our current understanding of physics. But even that isn't quite true. General Relativity doesn't actual preclude faster-than-light travel. The only thing it doesn't allow for is mass being accelerated to the speed of light. When that happens Relativity produces all sorts of impossible outcomes like infinite mass, infinite gravity and zero time.

But if you push the equations beyond the speed of light, they all start working again; except you're now in mathematical 'imaginary' space. This is the basis for the hypothetical tachyon particle (faster-than-light particles), and the foundation for all the sci-fi ideas of warp speed or hyperspace.

My pet theory is that all we need to do accelerate to the edge of C, and then make a quantum leap through it. This way we never actually travel at C, which is all perfectly fine with physics as we know it.

Thanks. Cool comments. I presumed the other comments citing physics to dismiss the likelihood of aliens is based on the notion that the nearest solar system (approx 4 light years?) and the 186k mps posted speed limit make the time frames for travel prohibitive. But none of the naysayers said that exactly so maybe they have other reasons.
btw there some exotic theories that propose compressing space-time as a workaround for Einstein's speed limit and that the Casimir vacuum between parallel plates could fulfill the negative-energy requirement-- whatever that means... more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Russian007

Thanks. Cool comments. I presumed the other comments citing physics to dismiss the likelihood of aliens is based on the notion that the nearest solar system (approx 4 light years?) and the 186k mps posted speed limit make the time frames for travel prohibitive. But none of the naysayers said that exactly so maybe they have other reasons.
btw there some exotic theories that propose compressing space-time as a workaround for Einstein's speed limit and that the Casimir vacuum between parallel plates could fulfill the negative-energy requirement-- whatever that means... more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Fun... haven't heard of that one. I can't pretend to understand it, but it almost sounds like applying a doppler shift to space-time. Interesting...

Interstellar travel is certainly possible. It just takes a really long time to get anywhere. This is where all those cryogenic-freezing ideas come from in sci-fi, or the spaceships which start with one generation of people, but arrive with their great-great...progeny.

All this makes it very hard to travel interstellar distances. I find it hard to believe an alien species would put that much effort into coming here without making a big deal of saying "HI!" Instead, most of these so-called alien sightings are fleeting zippy things in the sky, or odd-balls claiming to have been abducted and (often) sexually assaulted. Just doesn't pass my sniff test for credibilty.

[GordMay]

[OldManMirage]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Agreed. But to be clear, I was point out that interstellar travel does not contravene any known laws of physics as we understand them. The challenge of distance is very real though, which is why I say that while it is very likely there are other intelligent critters out there, it is very UNlikely any of them are visiting us.

Mike, I would not dare to contradict you, but...

This is where the all the aspects of the Fermi paradox have to be considered. One of them is time. Even with our current level of technology, given enough time we could reach across our own galaxy. Given the estimated age of said galaxy, and the fact that many stars are much older than ours, IF - and that's the crux - IF life is common, there has been more than enough time for other species to do the same.

[boatman61]

Makes me smile when the 'Brains' always assume 'Little Green Men'..
Kinda limited when one considers the skills and co-operation many insects have developed to deal with their environments and successful survival..