Ever seen a UFO?

[boatman61]

They've just found a new type of human, previously unknown.. or is it an alien.???

[Narfi]

It might be more interesting to observe what people believe after seeing an unidentified object than in seeing the object itself.

The dreamers, the romantics, the skeptics, etc...

Any single sighting could be attributed to anything from being 'legit' to being delusion, or drunkenness, or, or, or.... It is the mass sightings, or at least those observed by more than a couple of people, that can be verified. How well are/were the meteorological conditions in the surrounding areas during those events? What angles were they observed from and from how large a geographic area? (a gathering of people in a small area? People from all around a several mile radius? etc....)

It was touched on earlier in this thread, but when observing something through a large lens, the image can be altered in any number of ways (imagine fun house mirrors) things can be closer, further, reversed, in different locations, etc...... Now if that lens is dynamically changing shape, it broadens the potential for what you see even more as well as adding the illusion of movement.

I imagine myself to be a romantic skeptic. I am drawn to the idea of the stories, the potential, the mystery, but I still feel that once the mystery is explained it would likely be anti-climatic.

And I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

Still, they say seeing is believing. I haven't seen, so perhaps if I did, then I too would become a believer.......

[Mike OReilly]

Are UFO sightings linked to sci-fi films
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8205424.stm

The same phenomena is observed in so-called ghost sightings; give the idea a big pop-cultural boost and suddenly people are seeing them everywhere. Same with angels or demons.

There may be aliens visiting us from places far beyond, but before we reach for this fantastical explanation, how about looking at the more mundane, and far more likely reasons.

[goboatingnow]

I’ve seen lots of UFOs , both seemingly of natural or man made provenance

[dannc]

Ward Carroll is a retired US Navy F14 RIO(Radar Intercept Officer) who has YouTube channel about F14s and related subjects.

He did a video on the Tic Tac UFOs that the USN has been seeing for a decade or so which might be of interest to some. There are decent images at about 9:12 in the video. There are FLIR images earlier in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z1lQ9Gp8Vk

I think his analysis is correct. What the USN has been seeing, and it is more than just aviators, radar and FLIR, but sailors on ships have seen them as well.

What is being seen can only be one of the three things.

1. Craft from a Russia or China.
2. One of our secret programs.
3. Or Aliens.

I think he is quite correct that if the craft were from Russia or China, it would not be kept secret and there would be a push for a larger defense budget. There are other reasons to believe these are not Russian or Chinese.

The Tic Tac's being from another star system is certainly possible but has all sorts of issues.

What is most likely, and for which there is quite a bit of evidence, is that the Tic Tacs are a secret program. The USN has been taking out patents about anti gravity, craft that go underwater and in the air, and other strange ideas for years.

If the Tic Tac UFO's explains what people have been seeing, what I saw many decades ago, this means the program has existed for almost a half century or maybe more.

Later,
Dan

[Don C L]

The images at 9:12 don't look like tic tacs, they look more like mylar balloons to my eye.

[Russian007]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

There is an argument that, if they come they will most likely be Catagary 2, here to take our stuff.

The thinking is it is most likely that a species to evolve to to that point they would need have evolved similar to us as competitive carnivores and therefore predators.

If we get to another planet and find animals on it that are not as advanced as us, it would be nice to think we would be supportive and helpful or leave them alone but we all know history will repeat and we will start thinking "look, they have lots more hardtogetium than they need" then when we get caught taking their stuff and they try to stop us we will say they are hostile to justify why we shot em all.

If they aren't like that and are looking after our best interests, they would leave us alone.

The truth is out there.......

Originally Posted by dannc

Ward Carroll is a retired US Navy F14 RIO(Radar Intercept Officer) who has YouTube channel about F14s and related subjects.

He did a video on the Tic Tac UFOs that the USN has been seeing for a decade or so which might be of interest to some. There are decent images at about 9:12 in the video. There are FLIR images earlier in the video.

I think his analysis is correct. What the USN has been seeing, and it is more than just aviators, radar and FLIR, but sailors on ships have seen them as well.

What is being seen can only be one of the three things.

1. Craft from a Russia or China.
2. One of our secret programs.
3. Or Aliens.

I think he is quite correct that if the craft were from Russia or China, it would not be kept secret and there would be a push for a larger defense budget. There are other reasons to believe these are not Russian or Chinese.

The Tic Tac's being from another star system is certainly possible but has all sorts of issues.

What is most likely, and for which there is quite a bit of evidence, is that the Tic Tacs are a secret program. The USN has been taking out patents about anti gravity, craft that go underwater and in the air, and other strange ideas for years.

If the Tic Tac UFO's explains what people have been seeing, what I saw many decades ago, this means the program has existed for almost a half century or maybe more.

Later,
Dan

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens!
Kidding aside, the flyer in the vid says it's not aliens because we've had a look at planets in our local system and they cannot support life. What about other star systems? There's some talk in this thread of interstellar travel violating laws of physics. Yes, that's true but the laws of physics as we understand them violate each other. The explanations of reality as proposed in physics texts books have holes in them. Specifically General Relativity which explains gravity (big things) and Quantum Theory (explains little things). Our rules fall apart. We know both are true and that both cannot be true. Also consider physicists kind of tossed in the unproven speculative concept of Dark Energy to make the math work. Not to mention that a generation of our best minds went down the rabbit hole of String Theory-- another concept fully unsupported by evidence. Our current understanding of reality is incomplete and we therefore shouldn't dismiss exotic concepts like interstellar travel until we know more about nature. To reitorate, I'm not saying it's aliens, but...

[OldManMirage]

Originally Posted by Don C L

The images at 9:12 don't look like tic tacs, they look more like mylar balloons to my eye.

^^^^This !!

Show me detailed pictures or video of something real and obviously extra-terrestrial, and you will make me a convert.

Until then, its just fantasy.

[SeanPatrick]

Originally Posted by Russian007

... the laws of physics as we understand them violate each other. The explanations of reality as proposed in physics texts books have holes in them. Specifically General Relativity which explains gravity (big things) and Quantum Theory (explains little things). Our rules fall apart. We know both are true and that both cannot be true.

New Physics Experiment Indicates There's No Objective Reality

Turns out, reality is at odds with itself.

Researchers performing a long-awaited experiment created different realities that are irreconcilable, proving that objective facts can be made to exhibit properties that cannot cohere, according to a recent study shared on a preprint server.

► https://interestingengineering.com/n...ective-reality

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by OldManMirage

^^^^This !!

Show me detailed pictures or video of something real and obviously extra-terrestrial, and you will make me a convert.

Until then, its just fantasy.

Then you'll join the billions who already believe in fantasy's... like the 72 virgins or Peters Gate..

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

New Physics Experiment Indicates There's No Objective Reality
► https://interestingengineering.com/n...ective-reality

If you really want to be confused, take up the study of Quantum Mechanics.
Quantum Darwinism, an Idea to Explain Objective Reality, Passes First Tests
Three experiments have vetted quantum Darwinism, a theory that explains how quantum possibilities can give rise to objective, classical reality.
➥ https://www.quantamagazine.org/quant...ests-20190722/

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Don C L

The images at 9:12 don't look like tic tacs, they look more like mylar balloons to my eye.

Yes, they could be balloons but what balloon can do what these objects were doing?

The USS Princeton, a cruiser with very advanced radar, first picked up the Tic Tac and two F18's were sent to investigate.

As described early in the video, around 1:30-3:30 talks about the encounter where the Tic Tac went towards the F18, then maintained formation with the F18. What balloon can maintain formation with a jet aircraft?

Then the Tic Tac disappeared and showed up on the USS Princeton's radar a few minutes later, 60 miles away. What balloon or aircraft can do this?

It is not covered in the video but US Navy ships have seen these things as well. Seeing being sailors using the Mark I eyeball and on the various sensors on the ships. Balloons do not travel at high speed.

Later,
Dan

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Russian007

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens!
Kidding aside, the flyer in the vid says it's not aliens because we've had a look at planets in our local system and they cannot support life....

Yes, his logic discounting aliens was not so good. There are better arguments that discount the Tic Tacs as alien ships than talking out the planets we have minimally explored.

Later,
Dan

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Russian007

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens!
Kidding aside, the flyer in the vid says it's not aliens because we've had a look at planets in our local system and they cannot support life. What about other star systems? There's some talk in this thread of interstellar travel violating laws of physics. Yes, that's true but the laws of physics as we understand them violate each other. The explanations of reality as proposed in physics texts books have holes in them. Specifically General Relativity which explains gravity (big things) and Quantum Theory (explains little things). Our rules fall apart. We know both are true and that both cannot be true. Also consider physicists kind of tossed in the unproven speculative concept of Dark Energy to make the math work. Not to mention that a generation of our best minds went down the rabbit hole of String Theory-- another concept fully unsupported by evidence. Our current understanding of reality is incomplete and we therefore shouldn't dismiss exotic concepts like interstellar travel until we know more about nature. To reitorate, I'm not saying it's aliens, but...

I generally agree with most of what you say, except I don't think anyone has said interstellar travel violates any laws of physics that we currently know. Demonstrably, it does not, since all sorts of wavy-particles travel the interstellar distances. Heck, we now have two human-made objects (Voyager I & II) traversing interstellar space. No laws have been broken .

It is all the "warp speed" concepts which make no sense with our current understanding of physics. But even that isn't quite true. General Relativity doesn't actual preclude faster-than-light travel. The only thing it doesn't allow for is mass being accelerated to the speed of light. When that happens Relativity produces all sorts of impossible outcomes like infinite mass, infinite gravity and zero time.

But if you push the equations beyond the speed of light, they all start working again; except you're now in mathematical 'imaginary' space. This is the basis for the hypothetical tachyon particle (faster-than-light particles), and the foundation for all the sci-fi ideas of warp speed or hyperspace.

My pet theory is that all we need to do accelerate to the edge of C, and then make a quantum leap through it. This way we never actually travel at C, which is all perfectly fine with physics as we know it.

[capn_billl]

There is a problem with the "UFO's are aliens" theory.

Space is big, really really big.

Technology like Bussard drive would leave a signature detectable by deep space telescopes as they approach our part of the universe.

There are billions of stars, but developing space age technology from single cell life takes billions of years, and is likely one in a billion probability.

That leaves likely civilizations billions of light years apart, and approaches the age of the universe in probability.

That leaves a probable space civilization in one of the billions of nearby galaxies (measured in millions of light years apart), long odds of even considering whether the Milky way galaxy supports life, and deciding to visit.

We haven't even emitted enough RF to travel 100 light years from Earth, let alone the millions it would take for another race to pick it up.

Without building a superstructure Like a Dyson sphere, or Ringworld, it is unlikely even a nearby solar system would detect our presence.

The very first detectable emission we've sent is still light years away from the nearest star.

Thus we have Fermi's paradox.

If there is another intelligent civilization that has reached the space age, it is likely too far to visit, or even detect.