30ton Ferro cement Ketch about to voyage. Talk us out of a wind vane...

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by crunkbait

Wo, wo, wo. Thats a new one. The auto helm vane uses a cable actuated trim tab on a aux rudder. Are you saying I could use that system on my main rudder? Thats pretty engenius but prone for...corrosion having submersed cables in hosing and whatnot.... can anyone elaborate?

I like where this is going.

Do you have a picture of your back side just so we can see what your needs are?

That's your boats backside with a picture of the rudder and keel set up.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Were it me, I'd add the vane, but I'd build it myself... as I did on our last boat.

Auto pilots are great, and they have become more reliable over the years, but they are still notoriously failure prone. Being without some form of auto steering is not fatal, but it sure spoils a cruise, and can lead to fatigue levels which are dangerous as well as unpleasant.

But, it isn't necessary to buy a shiny new Hydrovane. Your type vessel does cry out for an auxiliary rudder/trim tab device like the HV, but the less expensive and often available used Auto Helm vane will do as well. That vane was the design on which I modeled my homebrew vane, and the result drove our previous boat many thousands of miles over a 17 yeahr period. Our present boat is of a type that is difficult to mount a vane on, so we substitute backup a/ps. I'd rather have the vane!

Jim

Jim, I'm making my own trim tab, but I don't quite grasp the concept of how these vanes work. So far I've not even seen one around. Can you recommend a very simple book/diagram that explains the concept? Then perhaps I can work out how to make a vane for my new trim tab.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Jim, I'm making my own trim tab, but I don't quite grasp the concept of how these vanes work. So far I've not even seen one around. Can you recommend a very simple book/diagram that explains the concept? Then perhaps I can work out how to make a vane for my new trim tab.

I haven't looked for a long time, but the Scanmar Marine site (they manufacture the Auto Helm these days) will likely have some diagrams that show how the linkage is set up. I (sort of foolishly) let all my drawings for my home brew go when we sold the boat. What was I thinking????

Cheers,

Jim

[daletournier]

It's a personal choice. I have a hydrovane, I personally like having a second rudder. I like redundancy. It often comes down to dollars.

Sent from my GT-N7105T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

i wish some folks would 'try' to get along in a friendly manner like cf rules request without the need to be so critical.

I DID see the op had an auto pilot, I merely didn't have the technical knowledge to know it can't be connected to a trim tab easily.

Ummmm, not only do I get along, but whilst getting along over about 40,000mms on this boat over the last 7 years I have gotten along enough to have the technical experience as well as the practical. Just because you reply to a thread many times it doesn't mean your opinion is right. Just the same as your interpretation of the tone of my post.

Any cent wasted before a cruise will be sorely missed along the way.


Mark

[El Pinguino]

Would I have one .....yes...simple as that.

Looking at your boat I would suggest a vertical axis vane coupled to an auxiliary rudder with trim tab.
Nothing attached under water to rudder, nothing attached to wheel above water...totally independent system.

Custom built and sized for my boat but the same design has been matched and fitted to boats from 30 to 70 foot.

Works good

[haiqu]

Secondhand Aries Windvanes often come up for under $1000 so I couldn't justify seven boatbucks for one. But then I'm independently poor and tend towards thriftiness as a survival mechanism.

[Snowpetrel]

Lovely looking boat, and I like the distinctive paint scheme, but then I also like RC's Kermit green .

I sailed my parents big Ferro ketch around Nz as a kid, and offshore. No AP, or windvane. With the wind fwd of the beam she would self steer most of the time, and she could be coaxed to steer more or less slowly downwind with the staysail sheeted amidships and a reefed mizzen eased well out. And with us five boys as crew we always had a fresh helmsman available.

Given enough spare funds or time, I'd go something like Jim Cates and el pinguinos setup. I've used the same system on a much bigger boat (a Roberts 52) and it worked brilliantly. A big plus for the scanmar autohelm system with cables is that you can mount the vane high above any davits and well clear of the mizzens windshadow.

I've used a sayes rig. It worked well, but was hard to setup and remove. I think the auxiliary rudder system is the best for bigger boats, but the sayes rig is powerful and compact.

If you can track down a copy of Bill belchers book wind vane self steering it has pretty straight forward plans for simple systems.

If you're like most people and are short of money and time I'd just go, and hand steer if the autopilot craps out. A lot rests on the age of your kids (I assume they are your crew?) If they can hand steer then make sure they do so for practice, say an hour a day. And if the AP goes down they can help out where needed, and it will make them better sailers.

If you have a good emergency tiller setup, or possibly with a drum on the wheel a set of twins can be rigged, or one of the many sheet to tiller systems can be used to get you home if the AP dies.

Good Sailing, if you make it to Tasmania I'll look out for you.

Cheers.


Sent from my HTC_0PCV2 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Blue Crab]

http://www.amazon.com/Self-Steering-.../dp/0877420424

[HankOnthewater]

An autopilot can work well with trimtabs. This is an example of a 47 ft yacht, around the world over 6 years, with an (now old but still functioning) ‘Sharp Autotiller’, uses a lot less power than an AP that drives the main rudder.


[IMG]file:///C:\Users\retra\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.jpg[/IMG]

Edit: hmmm, where are the photos?



Ideally the hinging point of such trimtabs should be in the same centre as the rudder post but this one was offset approx. 120 mm to the aft but still working well.


[IMG]file:///C:\Users\retra\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image004.jpg[/IMG]

[HankOnthewater]

here they are

[captmikem]

Autopilots are one of the items that seem to fail most when you need them. On a trip around the world I carried spare everything for my Robertson, and ended up buying a third control head in NZ. As the original and the spare went south, plus a few other parts. Wonderful things but you really miss them when they fail. And they do suck up a lot of amps over a 24 hour period.

If you are interested, I have a brandy new, never used Monitor windvane that I would sell for a lot less than new. It has vertical mounts, and would fit your boat. PM me if interested.

Michael

[seasick]

Connect with Kym at Columbia Marine Exchange in Portland, OR. Tell her you're looking for a vane. She usually has several used ones in stock for around $1,000.

If you have hydraulic steering go with an auxiliary rudder vane. Jim Cate's advice is spot on.

The Scanmar Marine Auto Helm vane would be particularly fitting for your boat.

You will be glad you went for the vane. Not only for the piece of mind of having a second rudder but for not consuming mass quantities of electricity.

If you can't find one, PM me. I have a completely rebuilt Auto Helm vane I'd
Part with for $2,000

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I haven't looked for a long time, but the Scanmar Marine site (they manufacture the Auto Helm these days) will likely have some diagrams that show how the linkage is set up. I (sort of foolishly) let all my drawings for my home brew go when we sold the boat. What was I thinking????

Cheers,

Jim

Jim...

If that's your biggest regret, you have a TON of catching up do !!!

(I hear ya... I would have likely done the same thing....)
***sigh***

[sailing_gal]

I have been on a total of 4 ocean sails, 3 in the past 2 years, where there was autopilot failure. My boat's AH computer gave up the ghost in the Bahamas and 2 other sailboats on deliveries, one in the English Channel and one off-shore eastern coast of the US. I have now outfitted a hydrovane on my boat for a planned Atlantic crossing. I like the redundancy and wouldn't cross an ocean without one.