Americas's Cup settles Mono vs Cat once and for all?

[hafa]

Funny how these threads bring out the Luddites. BTW, props to StuM for the highly appropriate quote by Lewis Carroll. The most valuable contribution to this thread so far.

Today's F1 drivers and America's cup sailors have more skill in their little finger than any of us have in our whole body...

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I think your right, that some things won't filter through but I'm equally sure some will.

Foils seem a perfect match to overcome the slow reputation some of the luxury catamarans have and I'd be very surprised if we don't see something along the foil idea come out as an option on some production cats in 3 to 5 years or even earlier.

I imagine that the foils on productions boats will provide "X" amount of lift, probably adjustable within set safe limits. For example at 15kn you might be able to adjust between 0 and 1ton of lift on each hull. Although the first ones may be more conservative.

Maybe some tracking would be nice.

We'll see, I doubt there will be much change in 5 years from now. Most changes up to this point has been in materials used.

In racing there's always room for more risk taking than in the civilian sector, it comes with the territory of racing, it's understood and accepted. The dangers are also part of the thrill.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Stupid idea to go back to mono.

Sort of like Formula1 going back to pushbikes.

Cheers,
b.

Absolutely. interest will certainly decline.

[leboyd]

If sailors from 300BC saw the boats from 1500AD, they'd probably say, "It's not really sailing. Anyone can do that."

If sailors from 1500AD saw the boats from 1930AD, they'd probably say, "It's not really sailing. Anyone can do that."

If sailors from 1930AD saw the boats from 1980AD, they'd probably say, "It's not really sailing. Anyone can do that."

Innovation isn't a bad thing, whether cars, boats, houses, electronics, etc. Why do people not want to move forward?

[oldjags]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Stupid idea to go back to mono.

Sort of like Formula1 going back to pushbikes.

Cheers,
b.

I don't know. I just watched a classic car race at the Goodwood Festival on TV, and it was exciting as hell. A '62 Jaguar e-type battling it out with a bunch of Shelby Cobras.

Sure, modern race cars could blow either one of them off the track, but it was the competition and the beauty of the cars that made it so satisfying to watch.

Once upon a time there wasn't a lot of difference between a race car and a street car, and you could imagine yourself driving one of those high-performance machines. Same with sailboats. I can't see myself ever sailing a foiled catamaran, but a classic 12-meter, I could.

[hafa]

Originally Posted by oldjags

Sure, modern race cars could blow either one of them off the track, but it was the competition and the beauty of the cars that made it so satisfying to watch.

Classics, be they boats or cars have an aesthetic all their own. As an analogy, I love my collection of 19th century pocket watches and carry one on a daily basis, right along with my Samsung S8.

To me, they both (watch and phone) have their place, one as a work of industrial art that has withstood the test of time, the other as an indispensable 21st century work tool. I'd not however, consider one "better" than the other. Likewise with racing vehicles. The classics are beautiful works of industrial art and a joy to watch, the new vehicles are exciting in their innovation and capabilities and a thrill to watch. They are not mutually exclusive nor is either inherently superior.

There are many things I cannot do, such as visit outer space or crew on an America's Cup yacht. I do, however, enjoy watching others do these things and thoroughly enjoy the things I can do, such as fly to the ends of the earth in the spirit of exploration or sail a Hobie Cat or yacht.

[Suijin]

I watched the America's Cup in San Francisco and I do have to say it was a rather spectacular sight. The whole point of going with cats was to try and make the Cup more exciting and to draw in more eyeballs, and sponsors, and money, and to generate more buzz for sailboat racing. I think it succeed to a degree on that front, probably piquing the interest of a younger generation. Cats in the Cup are what snowboards in the Olympics are to skiing; a means of making the sport more exciting and relevant to a new generation.

Being a racer I certainly appreciate the cup being sailed in boats that I can relate to, but I understand why it is not and don't feel strongly one way or the other about what boat they pick. If it brings in more challengers and leads to a more exciting event for the broader populace, I think that's a good thing.

I do think they need to give a long hard look at how technology is used, however. Watching a couple of guys pedaling away furiously on the NZ boat this last time was not really very interesting. Evidently at least a few of them did not even know how to sail. Their job was to keep the hydraulic systems going and not much more. Every team will try and game the rules to get an edge, it's how the sport works at that level and with a novel rule set every time, but it's disappointing, particularly when some technical innovation leads to blowouts.

"Emirates Team New Zealand have been consulting with a number of potential challengers and there is an overall desire to have a spectacular monohull yacht that will be exciting to match race, but also one that the public and sailors can relate to as a sail boat that really challenges a full crew of professional yachtsman around the race track."

That "but" is the crux of it. Making it exciting and sporting at the same time is the challenge. Let's hope they find a good solution.

I support the tighter nationality rules as it makes sense since it's countries that compete. But if the format ends up being primarily about racing skill then we might as well skip the actual racing and just let NZ keep the cup lol.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Not all sailing vessels are sailboats. Some are catamarans, others are trimarans, some even sailing rafts.



That being said.



I do not consider a snow shovel with wings flying over water craft.... a sailboat.



To each his own.

Once again you ad nothing to the discussion. Do you only consider humans of one race, one religious belief and one sexual preference to be considered the only ones that are human? Talk about behind the times and having a narrow view.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by oldjags

I don't know. I just watched a classic car race at the Goodwood Festival on TV, and it was exciting as hell. A '62 Jaguar e-type battling it out with a bunch of Shelby Cobras.

Sure, modern race cars could blow either one of them off the track, but it was the competition and the beauty of the cars that made it so satisfying to watch.

Once upon a time there wasn't a lot of difference between a race car and a street car, and you could imagine yourself driving one of those high-performance machines. Same with sailboats. I can't see myself ever sailing a foiled catamaran, but a classic 12-meter, I could.

Ah great fun, you also get the diversity and variety in vehicles, something that's lacking today with cars looking mostly the same.

In fact we see very much of the same with sailboats today, the generic looking plastic Euro barges that are being mass produced and spitted out like a developing country would a cheap car to prop up its GDP. Every year there's a “new” model.

[jtsailjt]

I'd prefer to see displacement boats with sails made of flexible material in the America's Cup. I admit I couldn't take my eyes off the foiling cats and found it extremely exciting to watch as did plenty of people who had never before bothered to watch a sailboat race. So I think there's definitely a place for it and it is good for the overall sport of sailing. The trouble is, with such high tech machines with rigid wings instead of sails, and things happening so fast, I cant tell WHY one boat is going faster than the other one so I feel less a part of it than when I can actually see and at least begin to understand the sail trim changes and the helmsmans tactics that are being used and feel that it much closely relates to what those of us who sail traditional boats do.

[Van Der Beek]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I'd prefer to see displacement boats with sails made of flexible material in the America's Cup. I admit I couldn't take my eyes off the foiling cats and found it extremely exciting to watch as did plenty of people who had never before bothered to watch a sailboat race. So I think there's definitely a place for it and it is good for the overall sport of sailing. The trouble is, with such high tech machines with rigid wings instead of sails, and things happening so fast, I cant tell WHY one boat is going faster than the other one so I feel less a part of it than when I can actually see and at least begin to understand the sail trim changes and the helmsmans tactics that are being used and feel that it much closely relates to what those of us who sail traditional boats do.

Well at least they are in the water, like boats are, not above it.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

We'll see, I doubt there will be much change in 5 years from now. Most changes up to this point has been in materials used.

In racing there's always room for more risk taking than in the civilian sector, it comes with the territory of racing, it's understood and accepted. The dangers are also part of the thrill.

You could be right about the timing it depends on the motivation to produce it, when they started work on the idea and how much development is required to make it safe for sailors to use. I work in design (nothing to do with boats) and if someone approached me with the task to develop this I think we would have a 1st run production design in the water in that time because the hard work has been already done by the race teams.

[PhiSig1071]

Originally Posted by Van Der Beek

Not all sailing vessels are sailboats. Some are catamarans, others are trimarans, some even sailing rafts.

That being said.

I do not consider a snow shovel with wings flying over water craft.... a sailboat.

To each his own.

So glad you're here to help us, since Merriam-Webster and all the others have got things so wrong.

Definition of sailboat

:a boat usually propelled by sail

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sailboat

Yep, Catamarans, Trimarans, Hobie Cats, Pacific Voyaging Proas, none of them are "sailboats". Absolutely.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by PhiSig1071

So glad you're here to help us, since Merriam-Webster and all the others have got things so wrong.



https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sailboat

Yep, Catamarans, Trimarans, Hobie Cats, Pacific Voyaging Proas, none of them are "sailboats". Absolutely.

Guess it depends on what Humpty Dumpty chooses the word "boat" to mean.

BTW, don't look up sailboat in "The Urban Dictionary" :

[FlyingScot]

Just to clear up some confusion about F1.

F1 generally bands driver aids.

Drivers have to launch the car themselves.
https://youtu.be/5Rsz4yW53aM

Cars have brake bias adjustment but no anti-lock systems.

Yes, the cars are super complicated hybrids.
Mercedes just announced they will be selling a supercar with lots of actual parts and tech from the F1 team.
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mer...-for-the-road/
It will be heavier of course but also have motors hooked to the front wheels.


I think racing almost always has positive trickle down effects.