Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-02-2018, 22:06   #46
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 1,980
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

I live on a large, old power boat. The main reason is comfort, on board laundry, dishwasher, and so on. And I don't get the thrill of steering from an open cockpit in all weathers. I had sailboats when I was young. Looking back, it seemed like I had been living in a cave. On a power boat, most main deck cabins have windows that lets you see out and feel as part of the outside but with the ability to shut out the weather.
If you're going to ocean cruise, get a long boat so you have a hull that goes faster but is easier on fuel. On my boat I can economically cruise at 7 knots but usually do 10. Hull speed is 12+.
__________________

Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2018, 23:03   #47
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,981
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

I love these.
Considered for the Med based out of Mallorca. A smaller one, not particularly this model.

Drawbacks? Price to purchase.

__________________

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2018, 23:14   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,659
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Haven't met anyone cruising n a sail boat that used to be motor boaters.
Another one here.

Though it had less to do with sailing vs the cost of fueling a pair of V8 engines when we transitioned to longer distance cruising. Plus the power boat we had was configured for weekending not carrying our life around.

Funny thing is if you go down to most cruising areas and watch, you will find the sailboats are motoring 80-90% of the time. When they sail, it's usually a nice weekend afternoon where they aren't going anywhere and they can pick a nice direction relative to the wind and waves. I suspect most buy a sailboat thinking they will sail to destinations and then are hesitant to admit the reality.

My thought is:
- Weekend cruising (maybe with a week or two vacation): It's hard to beat a planing power boat. A 50 mile per day range limit on sailboats for weekends means after the first season, you've seen all the destinations a few times. A fast power boat means you have lots of options.
- Longer distance coastal cruising: Trawler or sailboat under power makes a lot of sense. The lower range is less of an issue but you get fuel and maintenance advantages.
- Ocean crossing: Sailboat is most common but there are powerboat designs that can do it. If you want cheap, you are pretty much stuck with a sailboat but once the budget gets up there, it really is possible to built a powerboat with ocean crossing range for not much difference in price.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2018, 23:24   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,659
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
I love these.
Considered for the Med based out of Mallorca. A smaller one, not particularly this model.

Drawbacks? Price to purchase.

Power cats are a little late to the party but if you can fit within their limitations they offer some great opportunities.

We had a Gemini 34' sail cat. We had a range under power of around 350miles at around 6kts.

If you started over...removed the sails, mast and rigging and put that weight capacity into fuel storage, the range would be up around 700miles. Slow down to 4kts and it would jump to maybe 1200miles. That's with gas outboard. With the diesel version, 1500miles should be possible. Still a little light for ocean crossing but a Caribbean loop is very much reasonable.

A purpose built 40-45' cat with a 2500mile range would be pretty straight forward without breaking the bank.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2018, 23:34   #50
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,981
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Power cats are a little late to the party but if you can fit within their limitations they offer some great opportunities.

We had a Gemini 34' sail cat. We had a range under power of around 350miles at around 6kts.

If you started over...removed the sails, mast and rigging and put that weight capacity into fuel storage, the range would be up around 700miles. Slow down to 4kts and it would jump to maybe 1200miles. That's with gas outboard. With the diesel version, 1500miles should be possible. Still a little light for ocean crossing but a Caribbean loop is very much reasonable.

A purpose built 40-45' cat with a 2500mile range would be pretty straight forward without breaking the bank.
The transitional windage in and around the med in Mallorca was what made me look at the power cats intently. Whilst my friends blast off to Barcelona in their power cruisers at 25 to 30 knots from Soller, and are there in 3 hours or so, Id be content to make a pleasant days cruise out of it to save some money... in saying that, these babies will hit high double digits if your wallet allows. 7 or 8 knots cruising speed is relaxing and cheap.

Cats just have so much space....
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-02-2018, 23:51   #51
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 862
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post

Cats just have so much space....
They do, but they can't carry a load, weight is the enemy.
And they cost a motza.

In comparison we carry 5000 kg of water, 7000kg of diesel and we still have near 1000 kg of old AGM batteries below that I couldn't be bothered pulling out.
Weight is our friend, no noticeable difference in speed or fuel burn when near empty but we do have a noticeably better ride in the rough and at anchor when loaded up.
And older full displacement trawlers are relatively cheap.
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 00:06   #52
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,659
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
They do, but they can't carry a load, weight is the enemy.

In comparison we carry 5000 kg of water, 7000kg of diesel and we still have near 1000 kg of old AGM batteries below that I couldn't be bothered pulling out.
Weight is our friend, no noticeable difference in speed or fuel burn when near empty but we do have a noticeably better ride in the rough and at anchor when loaded up.
What's your top speed? It's common for a power cat to be extremely economical at slow speed but pour on a little power and 15-20kts is possible, so you can choose economy when it makes sense and speed when it makes sense. Most efficent trawlers max out around hull speed....so what 9.5kts for a 60' trawler and more like 7-8 for a more modest size trawler?

I can see some advantage in having a good size diesel tank but once range meets needs, more doesn't add a lot of advantage. Yeah, you can play a little bit with waiting for a good price but probably not enough to make or break the budget.

Why carry 1500gal of water. I wouldn't want to drink water that's sat in the tank for 6 months. How many of there are you? Without even being careful, 60 gal lasts us a week. Assuming the power cat has a good solar array (very easy on a power cat), you can make virtually unlimited water as you go. Maybe 200gal as an emergency backup if the water maker fails but 1500 is crazy.

If I was running a small freighter service hauling gravel, that capacity would be handy but for a cruising boat that's just overkill and I don't see much benefit. While overloading will impact performance, they can handle typical cruising loads.

You have a 60' boat that rides rough at anchor?
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 00:11   #53
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 862
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post

A purpose built 40-45' cat with a 2500mile range would be pretty straight forward without breaking the bank.
In these parts of the world it'd probably cost $700k plus if getting someone to do the build for you.
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 00:23   #54
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 862
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
What's your top speed? It's common for a power cat to be extremely economical at slow speed but pour on a little power and 15-20kts is possible, so you can choose economy when it makes sense and speed when it makes sense. Most efficent trawlers max out around hull speed....so what 9.5kts for a 60' trawler and more like 7-8 for a more modest size trawler?

I can see some advantage in having a good size diesel tank but once range meets needs, more doesn't add a lot of advantage. Yeah, you can play a little bit with waiting for a good price but probably not enough to make or break the budget.

Why carry 1500gal of water. I wouldn't want to drink water that's sat in the tank for 6 months. How many of there are you? Without even being careful, 60 gal lasts us a week. Assuming the power cat has a good solar array (very easy on a power cat), you can make virtually unlimited water as you go. Maybe 200gal as an emergency backup if the water maker fails but 1500 is crazy.

If I was running a small freighter service hauling gravel, that capacity would be handy but for a cruising boat that's just overkill and I don't see much benefit. While overloading will impact performance, they can handle typical cruising loads.

You have a 60' boat that rides rough at anchor?
Have seen 12kn but probably 4x the burn compared to 7.5kn and zero wash.

2500 litres of that water is ballast/trim but we have fresh water flush toilet x 2, and showers every day for two of us.
We have had sailing boats before where we had 25 litre carry on water tanks - we have got past that now.

We have 250w x 9 solar array and could run desal, but fresh water is pretty much free and the tender has a 200L bladder that we transfer water and add to tanks when near a tap plus we have excellent rain catchment.
I'd rather keep the several thou in coin and one less thing to maintain. KISS

Yes, it does ride rough at anchor at times, not enough to spill drinks but enough that its noticeable
We get anchorages to ourselves when it gets 20+ on a lee shore
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 00:26   #55
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,981
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

a 50foot production cat is from 900K to 2 million.

Im not so sure about the weight issues. Ive been on and the cat was laden. Still got up to speed and economy was in the normal range.

I would not want to carry 1500 gallons of water. Its dead weight. Put the water maker on whilst cruising... 2 hours and sufficient for a long time. Solar panels keep everything in full electric mode.

Horses for courses... The med is where I would use it.. lovely.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 00:48   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,659
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
In these parts of the world it'd probably cost $700k plus if getting someone to do the build for you.
If you add lots of bells and whistles...sure. If you keep it simple, it could be half that.

And a 60' trawler with ocean crossing range would likely run $2mil+.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 00:53   #57
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,659
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Have seen 12kn but probably 4x the burn compared to 7.5kn and zero wash.

2500 litres of that water is ballast/trim but we have fresh water flush toilet x 2, and showers every day for two of us.
We have had sailing boats before where we had 25 litre carry on water tanks - we have got past that now.
So flat out is 12kts vs 15-20kts cruise speed for a typical power cat with flat out speeds often 3-5kts faster than cruise speeds. If worried about fuel burn or wake, you can always throttle back.

Again a power cat with a decent solar array and modest tanks can give you fresh water flush and showers daily without needing to drag around several tons of water.

I'm not saying you have a bad boat. You seem very antagonistic vs a power cat option.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 01:11   #58
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 862
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
So flat out is 12kts vs 15-20kts cruise speed for a typical power cat with flat out speeds often 3-5kts faster than cruise speeds. If worried about fuel burn or wake, you can always throttle back.
Dolphins like playing in the bow wave at 7.5 kn
Mackeral like taking lures at 7.5 kn

If high speed is so important to you why are you sailing?
Quote:
Again a power cat with a decent solar array and modest tanks can give you fresh water flush and showers daily without needing to drag around several tons of water.
Again a modest power cat with all of that above will cost $700+
Show me one that has been done cheaper with decent build quality, quality gear and a proper walk around king size bed and I'll buy it tomorrow
Quote:
You seem very antagonistic vs a power cat option.
Not at all, power cat was my first choice, I spent quite a bit of money investigating power cats, I have built catamarans for a living including my last boat.

Reality was that to get the no compromise comfort level and load carrying ability to spend several months away at a time , like we do now, would mean a boat that would cost a hell of a lot more than our current spend.
2nd hand would have been every bit of $1.5 mill.
Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 01:16   #59
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,981
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

FOr a small runaround, the suggestion to remove the mast on a Gemini is a good one.

However: I cannot bring myself to demast a perfectly good sailboat.

Perhaps if purchased in a 'distressed' condition I could do it....
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-02-2018, 01:29   #60
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 862
Re: Why not a motor yacht?

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post

And a 60' trawler with ocean crossing range would likely run $2mil+.
Can a 60 ft trawler with 3500nm range do an ocean crossing?
I can guarantee you she cost considerably less than $2 mill
__________________

Simi 60 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
motor, yacht

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Available: Love your yacht? Why not hire the Best. captmarlena Crew Archives 0 22-09-2014 17:27
Micah's Folly...why not, and why anyway... micah719 Monohull Sailboats 10 17-07-2014 13:15
Why Not Build a Motor Boat Like a Sailboat ? Lexam Powered Boats 50 19-02-2013 08:50
From Motor Yacht to Sail Yacht BoatingCruising Meets & Greets 9 21-04-2011 22:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.