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Old 08-01-2013, 23:02   #331
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So with all good intent. Our active shooter kit is a door wedge ,a hammer, wasp spray, a flashing light and a six pack of ultra slim fast. They like ultra slim fast as no one drinks this so it's safe from theft from the kit. We should not shelter in place but run if we can. Real life professional training from security experts. I'm not much for mixing it up with words so you can bet that's the word from the expert training guys.
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:11   #332
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Dog & machete.
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Old 08-01-2013, 23:16   #333
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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I had the misfortune of waking one night in my apartment with a Charles Manson type character standing over me. I can elaborate but I have a question.
I rolled off my bunk and grabbed a 12ga flare gun I had by the night stand. The intruder turned and walked out of the room. I then saw a second intruder walking out of my office. It was and upstairs apartment and they had reached the stairs and by the time I realized they had taken my wife's pocket book and my car keys and wallet, they had reached the street. One intruder was already in my truck but I managed to put the drop on Manson with the flare gun. He turned and started walking towards me, I shirtless and briefs. I slowly backed away as he walked towards me with the flare gun pointed squarely at his chest and me warning I was going to shoot. He was undeterred. The commotion and shouting luckily alerted the police who happened to parked across the street at the neighborhood Jiffy Mart. They arrived just seconds before I would have shot this fellow and they made his arrest but the second intruder escaped. Question. I always wondered if the flare gun would have stopped this fellow? At the time I realized I had only one shot. It never occurred to me to aim for the head. I was looking at the biggest target. I didn't want to miss. My feeling is it would not have stopped him. Needless to say, it was only days after that I purchased my first hand gun. A SS S&W 669 9mm automatic. Some say even that is not enough.
There's a video on youtube of some moron shooting himself in the head intentionally with a flare gun. If you watch it you'll see that it hurts but it does not put somebody down. I think the idea is a lot worse than the actual damage.
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Old 09-01-2013, 22:42   #334
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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There's a video on youtube of some moron shooting himself in the head intentionally with a flare gun. If you watch it you'll see that it hurts but it does not put somebody down. I think the idea is a lot worse than the actual damage.


There's flares, and then there's Flares. +1 on dog and machete, both legal almost anywhere. And highly effective!
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:53   #335
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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There's flares, and then there's Flares. +1 on dog and machete, both legal almost anywhere. And highly effective!
Am not very keen on dogs - but someone with a machete scares the crap out of me far more than even a fella with a gun . Mostly because they very easily make a mess of people, without even really trying - nor intending to cause great harm. a real mess .
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:59   #336
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

I'm a big fan of trip wires, they can be hooked to mechanical or electrical devices, even to the dog's tail! Only problem is, you have to remember where they are, unhook in the morning. Bear spray to cover avenues of approach. You can get the crowd control size of mace in many areas, it could fog an entire cockpit, not good inside I'm sure.

Flame thrower....LOL, hair spray and a cig lighter. I won't mention tossing a cup of lighter fluid or rubbing alcohol if they have a weapon, then the hair spray thing. Outside only....

I'm not concerned with confrontations, it's when you're away when the roaches come around. Lights and noise would be great. Bobby traps after that, like bear spray, no shooting spear guns......some kids getting in trouble and getting hurt or killed could cost you.

Another issue, if you aren't there and a water patrol (any LEO) boards to knock on your hatch and he gets blasted with bear spray.....then what?
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:28   #337
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You go to jail. That's what. Read up on " man traps " and the law . You cannot rig systems that cause injury without probable cause and in particular automatic response systems.


As to flare guns., have you ever fired one, I have , absolutly appaling accuracy and limited injury. In a small space you're more likely just to burn the boat to the waterline then anything else. They have a " wave it in their face " deterrent value , that's about it.

Mace, pepper sprays etc, are generally more illegal then guns in many jurisdictions.

I exclude the US from any such comments of course.
Let's keep it real folks.

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Old 10-01-2013, 08:12   #338
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Reading through this thread it occurs to me that there is something wrong when all these law abiding people have to figure out a way of defending themselves AND remain legal. The answer to the question should be simply to have some sort of early warning and a better weapon than the bad guy not an inferior weapon as all these work around bug spray type solutions are.
Something else that perplexes me is that pepper spray, tazers, etc. that are generally non leathal are forbidden to the public to protect themselves. Why is this? Am I just a simpleton for thinking this should be a simpler question to answer?
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:36   #339
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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...but someone with a machete scares the crap out of me far more than even a fella with a gun . .
Didn't Indiana Jones have this "discussion" in one of his movies? The bad guy had the machete and he had his whip. Then he realized he had HIS own gun!
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:47   #340
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

Comments on this thread have me asking the question, 'how many have actually lived with having shot and killed an intruder?' It is not a pretty experience but alot harder on the intruderer than the the intrudee although not by much.
Other than battlefield experience, my guess is very few and those who have, don't want to relive the time.
Maintaining security varies from country to country... in some countries, nothing but impending death will deter an intruder because they have little to lose. In more civilized areas, even a sign will turn away a would be thief, particularly if there are other, softer target handy.
If hand to hand combat is a good possiblity, best not take a knife to a gun fight. On the other hand, social mores of the country you are visiting should give sufficient guidance to develop effective deterrents.
There are parts of Chicago where you wouldn't want to venture unless you were well armed yet areas of remote Mexico just a smile and a little hable espagnol will defuse most threatening situations. Phil
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:50   #341
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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Didn't Indiana Jones have this "discussion" in one of his movies? The bad guy had the machete and he had his whip. Then he realized he had HIS own gun!
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:59   #342
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

My feeling is it would not have stopped him. Needless to say, it was only days after that I purchased my first hand gun. A SS S&W 669 9mm automatic. Some say even that is not enough.

Metric 9mm! Thats un'merican. Might as well get some french baguettes and sparkly Alpanian water.
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Old 10-01-2013, 16:40   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanathon
Reading through this thread it occurs to me that there is something wrong when all these law abiding people have to figure out a way of defending themselves AND remain legal. The answer to the question should be simply to have some sort of early warning and a better weapon than the bad guy not an inferior weapon as all these work around bug spray type solutions are.
Something else that perplexes me is that pepper spray, tazers, etc. that are generally non leathal are forbidden to the public to protect themselves. Why is this? Am I just a simpleton for thinking this should be a simpler question to answer?
Well we start to get esoteric here. Firstly in many societies you are not allowed to defend yourself in a premeditated way. Ie you can't prepare a defense that is likely to hurt another person. You may do so " in the heat of battle" when it is clear to you that your adversary intentions are to harm you. Hence the prohibition on any form of premeditated defense such as firearms, sprays, mace, ,man traps etc. English law and its derivatives reserves the right of punishment to the process of Law and prevents the citizen from implementing his or her own version. Remember for many years its was the accused who had little rights and " off with his head" was a popular refrain. In order to control the Monarchs arbitrary right to separate you from your body a body of law developed to ensure the accused hat to go through a process. Hence you aren't as a citizen allowed to deprive him of that.

My view on boats is that simple defensive actions are valuable, such as MarkJs security screen as preventing unexpected ingress into the cabin is key. After that its secure your valuables and common sense. I don't think pseudo-aggressive behaviour or methods such as machetes or flares have any part.

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Old 11-01-2013, 01:29   #344
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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Something else that perplexes me is that pepper spray, tazers, etc. that are generally non leathal are forbidden to the public to protect themselves. Why is this? Am I just a simpleton for thinking this should be a simpler question to answer?
Tasers and some other non-lethal weapons are restricted to (in theory) keep them out of the hands of kidnappers, rapists, etc.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:01   #345
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Re: Security - What do You Do ?

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Tasers and some other non-lethal weapons are restricted to (in theory) keep them out of the hands of kidnappers, rapists, etc.
Whereas, of course, lethal weapons are NOT restricted, in any meaningful way - at least, not in the US
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