Where should I place the anchor roller in to be clear of the bobstay?

[Eastward ho 24]

Hello again. I've been inquiring about the construction of a SS bowsprit for my de 32 and I'm nipping away at the project. I have the whisker stay tangs, bobstay forstay and staysail tangs all welded on. I've got a sarca Excel #5 anchor, lofrans tigres, And 5/16 h.t. chain all waiting to be installed. My original idea was to basically replicate the Davey and co stem head roller but in SS with a delrin roller in which I already have. (I included a pic.) Basically the roller would be smack up on the side of the sprit . This is my first boat with a sprit and haven't used her much during my refit so I'm flying blind on the design. Any. How I picturing my windlass ripping the bobstay on retrieval and the large anchor fouling it upon deployment? So I'm wondering if I ought to place the roller further off the sprit so the anchor flukes will be clear of the bobstay?I put a few pics up to show how far away I'm considering moving the roller. The fore and aft placement isn't correct the pics are just to show the distance off the sprit and where I'm thinking of placeing the roller.

[Eastward ho 24]

Hers the pics

[Orion Jim]

Have you considered an angled bow roller. I have a custom roller installed on my bowsprit which keeps the anchor clear of my bobstay and bowsprit.

[Eastward ho 24]

I never thought of it bc my old sprit was wooden I never considered if be getting a bigger anchor and never really thought of it. I'm not sure what the fairlead should be off of the new windlass either

[roverhi]

Bobstays and anchor rollers don't get along well. unless you put the roller at the very end of the bowsprit it will foul the bobstay regularly as the boat swings. It also puts very heavy strain on the bowsprit mounted all the way outboard if there is any sea running.

If you don't already have a way to fit a snubber at the bobstay hull fitting would try and find a way to fit one. Our W32 had two holes at the hull bobstay fitting. Put the bobstay on the upper one and a shackle for the snubber on the bottom. Worked out great. With the chain on bowsprit roller it would get out of phase with the pitching of the bow and shake the boat like it had just come down on a rock. Really unnerving as it didn't take much wave action for it to get ugly. With the snubber mounted low it was no problem and no more chain rubbing against the bobstay. The boat also sailed less at anchor with the pull of the chain down low.

[Don C L]

I used to sail a Downeast 38 rigged just as Roverhi describes. It seemed to me the best way to go too as long as the fitting is sufficiently strong.

[Eastward ho 24]

I'm going to go that route. I was wondering more as to where in relation to the sprit is the best place to mount the roller for deployment, retrieval, and storage it seems I'm gonna have to always fight the whisker and bobstay fittings?

[LeeV]

Different boat, but same concept. My biggest pain was the bridle, which we ultimately had hooked up on one side and just fished it around after dropping the hook...

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Eastward ho 24

I'm going to go that route. I was wondering more as to where in relation to the sprit is the best place to mount the roller for deployment, retrieval, and storage it seems I'm gonna have to always fight the whisker and bobstay fittings?

I'll need to check a shot of a Downeast bow, but as I recall the roller is built in to the sprit about a third of the way out, right? I think I'd just stay with the roller that is already there, if you have it. The 38 I sailed had a plow anchor and, yes, you may have to be at the ready to reach over and twist the chain if the plow was coming up to snag the bobstay, or just wait till it twists itself out of the way before you pull it up past the bobstay... just comes with the territory I think.

edit: ok checked out the roller on the sprit, it's farther out than I remember on the 38. But given the location of the windlass I'd still have to say better to leave as is. But leaving the rode there when anchored, and I am sure most people do, just doesn't seem a good idea IMO, if you can rig a stout lower fitting for the snubber. It seems a lot of potential strain on sprit and headstay. In a rough anchorage the bow can pitch a lot and yank up on the rode of course with a good deal of leverage. But I'll certainly defer to the engineers on that one.

[Taipe]

Originally Posted by Eastward ho 24

I'm going to go that route. I was wondering more as to where in relation to the sprit is the best place to mount the roller for deployment, retrieval, and storage it seems I'm gonna have to always fight the whisker and bobstay fittings?

Yes, just ask anyone you meet that has a bowsprit. In spite of the advantages on some boats of carrying more sail forward, when it comes to setting and pulling the anchor, and even just riding at anchor, the bowsprit can be a royal PIA! First, as you now appreciate, you will have no choice other than to deploy and retrieve the anchor through the relatively small triangle between the whisker and bobstay. Although it will detract some for the appearance, you can protect the whiskers and bobstay from chafing on the anchor and chain when it runs out, by sleeving them with PVC pipe of slightly greater ID dimension than the wire stays, I think CPVC looks nicer, if you substitute modular threaded fittings such as Haynes Hi-Mod in place of the hydraulic swaged ends. Then of course, you will always be on the lookout for the newest and smallest anchor claimed to have something akin to the holding power of a ship anchor. And, then, on top of that, there's the problems on how to fasten the tail end of the sprit to the foredeck. Tradition would dictate hinging the tail end of the sprit by capturing it with a 5/8" bolt between a pair of dogs (square-face bollards) that stick up thru the deck and are glassed & bolted below deck, usually to the aft bulkhead of the chain locker. Now, for fixing the sprit to the forward end of the bow, some riggers hold to the purist ideology that a sprit should be free to hinge off of it's tail end, and turn up their noses when they see a sprit bolted immobile to the deck, but production boatyards bolt them down solidly to the stem area of the foredeck. The riggers will also tell you that ideally the forestay and bobstay angles should transect at the mid-point-center of the bobstay. And finally, you will always want to take the strain off of the bowsprit by using a bridle secured to port & starboard on heavy duty cleats. Oh, I left out the advantages of using a tail feather (a trysail will double well for this) on the aft end of the boom and experimenting with letting out just enough on the mainsheet to keep the bow to one side instead of riding back & forth and making noise on the whiskers when you'd rather catch up on some nap time.

Having said all this, my advice to a coastal or blue water cruiser is to seriously consider deleting the dream of a bowsprit from the frontal cortex, and unload the purchased & fabricated hardware onto some poor unsuspecting soul on ebay! This way you can exponentially multiply the odds of having many more delightful days and nights at anchor ahead of you! And, don't let anyone claim they are perfectly happy with their bowsprit - they're either racing 100% of the time or they're drinking a beer while tied up to their slip in the marina. When at anchor in an otherwise peaceful and pleasant cove, their neighbors know better! .. hee, hee, hee!

[AndyEss]

Despite the last poster, anchoring with a bowsprit is fine - if you have the snubber run through a shackle on the bobstay hull fitting. Further, this low attachment point improves (flattens) the angle of your rode and the bottom, significantly improving anchor holding.
Yes, when raising your anchor you usually have to wait for it to spin so the flukes or plowpoint don't catch the bobstay. If the anchor doesn't spin by itself, you need to twist the chain a bit.

[zeehag]

most folks with wooden bowsprits with bobstays in place use a bridle snubber to prevent befouling of the bobstay and keep pressure off the sprit.
i plan on relocating my anchor rollers back closer to the bow, instead of out on sprit. mine is a floating style sprit and doesnot enjoy constant heavy weights and pulling so i keep my stress points on forward section of bows abaft the sprit.
my snubber bridle passes through the hawse on each side of bow and affixes to bulwark cleats and anchor chain affixes to bits/sampson posts mid line forward bows. so far i still have the tender bits of bowsprit and the bobstay intact despite not following the herd mentality. many anchorages are rough water, so this is saying something. have known of a few unwanted and involuntary sprit modifications while at anchor.
]whisker stays on my formosa are not affected by anchor tackle unless the anchor is dropped outside the stays, so noise is constant. it is not fun to pass the chain in full via bitter end beneath the stays in order to stop that infernal sound of damage in progress.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

Despite the last poster, anchoring with a bowsprit is fine - if you have the snubber run through a shackle on the bobstay hull fitting. Further, this low attachment point improves (flattens) the angle of your rode and the bottom, significantly improving anchor holding.
Yes, when raising your anchor you usually have to wait for it to spin so the flukes or plowpoint don't catch the bobstay. If the anchor doesn't spin by itself, you need to twist the chain a bit.

So Andy, in your case, is your bobstay fitting stout enough to handle the load of anchoring? I always kinda doubted the bobstay fitting on the Downeast was up to it since it wasn't designed for it, though the owner felt it was ok. I always thought a separate huge fitting, below the bobstay, through-bolted in the bow would be the way to go.

[Taipe]

Originally Posted by AndyEss

Despite the last poster, anchoring with a bowsprit is fine - if you have the snubber run through a shackle on the bobstay hull fitting. Further, this low attachment point improves (flattens) the angle of your rode and the bottom, significantly improving anchor holding.
Yes, when raising your anchor you usually have to wait for it to spin so the flukes or plowpoint don't catch the bobstay. If the anchor doesn't spin by itself, you need to twist the chain a bit.

Hi Andy,

I think it depends on familiarity with the anchorage. Apparently you've gotten away with that so far. But in an unfamiliar anchorage, when the wind pipes up and changes direction at 3 AM into your once peaceful anchorage, you won't like your method. Much better to use a bridal to distribute the strain, instead of putting it all on that friction point of the shackle onto your bobstay hull fitting, the snubber reducing only the sudden shock of the strain. Furthermore, re-setting anchor will involve removing that shackle, and in those conditions that's not much fun. A kellet is easier to retrieve and can be valuable in a crowded anchorage where letting out more scope may not be an option.

[AndyEss]

I run my snubber from the deck through the bobstay hull fittiing shackle (with chaff protection) and then to the anchor chain. That way if the chit hits the fan (experience can be a fearsome teacher) I can release the snubber and slip the chain if in dire straits.
The bobstay hull fitting is very substantial on a Hans. I have been anchored with middle of the night wind changes, resulting in 3-4 ft seas in the anchorage. My snubbers do wear out fairly quickly (3 - 6 months) but the gain I get from the better rode angle/holding makes me think this is worth it.