Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-12-2014, 17:09   #1021
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: The Yard Guys

Actually the Nauticat 52 born as a Nautor Swan 50 mototrsailer, only 9 are produced and they are designed by Rod Stephens.

The molds are later sold to Siltala Yachts well know as Nauticat, the plans are modified by S&S and marketed as the new Nauticat 52.

Clear enough??

By the way , the design is a complete sucess since they sold a bunch of this boats , S&S Hull design is a 100% warranty that the boat is really well designed and Nauticat put the experience building the boat strong.
Is a hell of a good pilothouse ..
__________________

__________________
neilpride is offline  
Old 17-12-2014, 18:01   #1022
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,767
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Actually the Nauticat 52 born as a Nautor Swan 50 mototrsailer, only 9 are produced and they are designed by Rod Stephens.

The molds are later sold to Siltala Yachts well know as Nauticat, the plans are modified by S&S and marketed as the new Nauticat 52.

Clear enough??

...
Now you get me really confused. That's precisely what I have said some posts back, except regarding the Swan: They had back in the day two lines, the Swan line (performance cruisers) and the Nautor line, more conservative slower boats (I would not call them motorsailors). They could have called the second line the Duck line but they prefer to call it only Nautor.

Look at what I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
the 1982 Nauticat 52, this one:

... has the hull not from a Swan but from a Nautor, the 1976 Nautor 50, this boat, a S&S design:



A Nautor is not a Swan. The boats were made by the same company but belonged to different lines, the Nautor line and the Swan line. The first Nautor was the 43 in 1976 and the last the Nautor 39 in 1977. They sold very few boats from that line, discontinued it in 1979 and sold the molds to Nauticat. The Swan line started in 1936 with the Swan 36 and they are still making them today...
__________________

Polux is offline  
Old 17-12-2014, 18:29   #1023
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: The Yard Guys

I just found the info in the S&S web site, so i guess you are right to, the 50 DS is a early Nautor, later Swan sell the plans to Nauticat, Nauticat send the plans to S&S , and S&S redesigned the old 50 plans and the 52 is born..
__________________
neilpride is offline  
Old 17-12-2014, 19:28   #1024
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: The Yard Guys

Wait - I thought Polux didn't have a clue what he is talking about?
__________________
smackdaddy is offline  
Old 17-12-2014, 20:42   #1025
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,019
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
So was the original Swan design that bad, or did Nauticat really hate a good design?

Mark
I would guess that Nauticat was aiming at a different market segment.
__________________
Island Time O25 is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 06:31   #1026
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: The Yard Guys

This is the comment on Facebook about the old heavy built Morgan:

Ran aground in the Bahamas, bouncing and grinding on the rocks for 12 hours until help arrived. This is the worst of the damage. Sure am glad we had a good, sturdy Morgan for this adventure.

Wonder how the new production boats would do?



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1418995863750.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	120.3 KB
ID:	93943  
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 07:24   #1027
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
This is the comment on Facebook about the old heavy built Morgan:

Ran aground in the Bahamas, bouncing and grinding on the rocks for 12 hours until help arrived. This is the worst of the damage. Sure am glad we had a good, sturdy Morgan for this adventure.

Wonder how the new production boats would do?



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
If that's really the extent of the damage production boats would fare just as well.
__________________
smackdaddy is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 07:53   #1028
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,657
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
This is the comment on Facebook about the old heavy built Morgan:

Ran aground in the Bahamas, bouncing and grinding on the rocks for 12 hours until help arrived. This is the worst of the damage. Sure am glad we had a good, sturdy Morgan for this adventure.

Wonder how the new production boats would do?



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Old heavy built Morgan, are you sure about that? My friend has an early 70's OI 41 and found a large area underwater that had 1/4" glass at the best. Not what I would consider heavy construction.
Also it would be a good idea to take into account the progress made in building lighter but stronger hulls than they did in the 70's with the use of coring, glass other than woven roving and chop strand and vacuum bagging.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
smj is online now  
Old 19-12-2014, 07:57   #1029
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Old heavy built Morgan, are you sure about that? My friend has an early 70's OI 41 and found a large area underwater that had 1/4" glass at the best. Not what I would consider heavy construction.
Also it would be a good idea to take into account the progress made in building lighter but stronger hulls than they did in the 70's with the use of coring, glass other than woven roving and chop strand and vacuum bagging.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Exactly. For example, did Morgan use Kevlar in their hulls?
__________________
smackdaddy is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 08:08   #1030
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
This is the comment on Facebook about the old heavy built Morgan:

Ran aground in the Bahamas, bouncing and grinding on the rocks for 12 hours until help arrived. This is the worst of the damage. Sure am glad we had a good, sturdy Morgan for this adventure.

Wonder how the new production boats would do?
Did they run aground because their leeway was so bad, or they couldn't tack fast enough, or the boat doesn't handle well under motor, or they got caught in current and couldn't maneuver with a fat long keel and barn door rudder?

If having a thick fiberglass hull and no-performance design that can take 12hrs grinding on a reef with little damage is your idea of a good boat design and build, then there is no hope for you.

I would take a responsive boat that is easy to keep off reefs with a bit of basic navigation any day.

BTW, those OI's were notorious for poor and inconsistent build quality. It is funny to see them brought forth as a good example - because they never were in their day.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 08:19   #1031
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: The Yard Guys

Oh snap!
__________________
smackdaddy is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 08:48   #1032
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,767
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
..
If having a thick fiberglass hull and no-performance design that can take 12hrs grinding on a reef with little damage is your idea of a good boat design and build, then there is no hope for you.
...
Again you made me laugh! Thanks that is good for the health

I wonder what percentage of boats is grounded in rocks. On my 30 000nm I only had been once in a tight situation (entirely by my fault an I managed to go away without damages). On all those miles must of the time I anchored for the night. sure if one goes to sail to badly charted and remote places I am all in favor to have a steel or aluminium boat (even if many do that on mass production boats) but for the kind of crusising most of the sailors do? That makes no sense.

And in what regards those old heavy boats you would have to exchange that for a lousy sailing performance. I posted yesterday what i think is the last post on the ARC thread. The Mason 44 and the Nauticat 43, with a close performance arrived yesterday, 10 days after the 45ft Philocat. The last boat is still at about 2 days sailing, the Island Packet 380, going at 5K.

By the way, the owner Peter, posted on the thread a nice video where we can see that they are not a big racing crew. It seems like Peter, the wife an two friends (Franziska, Stefan, Sven & Peter) certainly all good sailors.. Here is the video:
Polux is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 09:02   #1033
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,767
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
I would guess that Nauticat was aiming at a different market segment.
The same that Nautor was targeting without success with the Nautor line, that's why Nauticat bought the two moulds from them when they decided to finish with that line. Nauticat introduced big deck houses on them and gave them more potential as living aboard boats (making them worse sailboats in the process). They are great as live aboard boats and many use them for that in Europe, most of the time not sailing much or using them mostly as motor boats. They can sail on the trade winds (even if slowly) but on the weak and variable winds of most European coasts (on the summer) they are not at ease in what regards sailing.
Polux is offline  
Old 19-12-2014, 10:16   #1034
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,974
Re: The Yard Guys

I cross an ocean and it takes me half a day to read some of this stuff, same basic program with limited value. The Google guys taking on the sailors/builders. I see while I was gone Smack beat up the poor Moody's. Imagine this, back in the 70's Moody built one model, the 39 that they decided in their own wisdom could be built with a skeg design that was smaller than the one approved by Lloyds. One of these vessels had the skeg fracture somewhere in the Indian ocean. The owner had deep pockets and sued Moody and Lloyds of London . Moody lost and there after built very strong skegs on their boats. This was one boat that had an issue and it damn near cost them their reputation built over a hundred years. Those were different days, imagine loosing a rudder on a boat today and paying such a deep price that the company might not survive. Hunter would have been gone years ago as well as most production builders. Who could successfully sue a builder today for loosing a rudder? And for the conspiracy theory fools, this story was news from the get go and the original information is there for all to see, getting paid off to shut your mouth!! What a joke. And then Smack talks about a Moody breaking a skeg while being towed off a grounding but when a Jenneau is shown with the floors like pasta and the keel off he suggests its not fair to knock a boat after its been damaged as any boat can be damaged. This is the same BS with the same players.. entertaining for sure as long as you realize you are debating with folks that for all practicle purposes are very junior sailors but are consummate experts when Google is their friend. Nice to be back! R
__________________
robert sailor is online now  
Old 19-12-2014, 10:21   #1035
cruiser

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,132
Re: The Yard Guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
That is seriously impressive.
__________________

__________________
smackdaddy is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hey, Diesel Guys ! ssullivan General Sailing Forum 20 26-08-2010 06:38
Do you guys really have insurance??? starfish62 Liveaboard's Forum 48 05-07-2007 08:17
OK Florida guys and gals, Who and where is this yard? MNDWGZ Multihull Sailboats 12 20-12-2006 09:25



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.