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smackdaddy · 12-11-2014, 15:14

I'm starting this thread as a result of my obscenely popular thread "Rudder Failures".

One of the recurring sentiments in that thread is that if you really want to know about the quality of any boat - you should ask The Yard Guys. And the dustier the guy the better.

So this thread is for that. Minaret already has a thread in this section detailing his incredibly fine work on various vessels:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ard-67680.html

But other Yard Guys keep mentioning boats they've worked on that had failed rudders, or bulkheads, or chainplates or whatever. THESE ARE THE KINDS OF EXAMPLES THAT WE'D LOVE TO SEE. And photos, like in Minaret's thread, would be extremely helpful - not just posted claims that "I worked on 7 XYZ's with warped vanity lids....blah, blah...." Pics or it didn't happen.

The reason for this thread is simple...by seeing the various common problems The Yard Guys have to fix, you can begin to see if the boat you're interested in (regardless of brand) exhibits common problems that you need to be aware of.

So, hopefully, this thread can be a great educational tool for boat shoppers...a tool for better diligence for boat owners...and a nice corner table at the CF Bar for The Yard Guys to sit around and "shoot the Plexus".

Who's gonna start?

Cheechako · 12-11-2014, 15:35

I'm not sure "the dustier the better is a good place..." Just because in a lot of yards the fiberglass grinder is the starting/crap job... other than... or in addition to emptying the garbage cans...
A good example is I left my 47 footer on the hard in Florida and flew home for 3 months during summer. It had some tiny (BB size) blisters just below the waterline for about 6 ft of one side. I asked him to have someone just grind enough to open them up so it would dry a bit for 3 months in the hot FL sun.
When I returned 3 months later some bonehead had ground about 6-10" wide, including above the waterline stripe and in a couple spots probably close to 1/4" deep. What a mess... to fix properly I would have had to repaint that side of the boat topsides.
That was when I decided to move the bottom paint up 5"!
I confronted the yard manager about it, and eventually.... (when I finally got him off his ass to go look at it)... he apologized and admitted he had sent a new guy down to do it. He obviously hadn't even seen it.....

smackdaddy · 12-11-2014, 15:41

Ouch! Not the best example of "Trust The Yard Guy".

Hopefully things go up from here.

Heh-heh.

Cheechako · 12-11-2014, 15:44

Yeah.... I think it probably falls under the heading "Never, ever, ever, ever leave your boat to have work done without being around...."

sailorboy1 · 12-11-2014, 16:37

I don't have any yard guys stories. Once I noticed what these guys seem to spend most of their time doing around the yard I decided they weren't exactly skilled labor, otherwise they wouldn't be mopping the head mainly. And yet the yard wants $65/hr for their work.

onestepcsy37 · 12-11-2014, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah.... I think it probably falls under the heading "Never, ever, ever, ever leave your boat to have work done without being around...."

That should be tatooed on the forearm of every boat owner.

I've only done that once in my entire life, and although the job came out good, I'm certain I did not get what I paid for.

**minaret** · 12-11-2014, 20:08

Since a rudder discussion began this, here's some pics of last weeks Pacific Seacraft rudder after grinding off all coatings. Typical owner repairs, the list of problems was long, including severe saturation. Sent in for factory rebuild, it's the cheapest option for the client. I see rudders like this and worse all the time.

**minaret** · 12-11-2014, 20:21

A J boat keel I just did. I told them not to warrant this one, as the lead in the ballast keel was clearly too hot when poured. It was full of bubbles, like it was boiling, especially in thinner areas like the trailing edge. Over time, these pinhole voids became saturated with seawater, deep into the lead. Ground it bare, dried with infrared radiant heavily, ground fresh, coated with barrier and slicked. Water still weeping through barrier in places. All coatings applied to this keel will continue to fail over time IMHO, due to the heavy saturation, unless a Hotvac regime or similar is undertaken. But I still faired it up nice and sent it out the door, owner couldn't pay for more. This will probably be a permanent problem for this boat, with it's keel needing to be refaired every five years or so.

**minaret** · 12-11-2014, 20:27

Since we were also talking about bonding with methacrylates, I'll throw in a little taste of the sort of thing we get from the manufacturers. Click on the pics and read the labels. No, this is not a methacrylate gun, just showing off a bit...

avb3 · 12-11-2014, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Yeah.... I think it probably falls under the heading "Never, ever, ever, ever leave your boat to have work done without being around...."

Not sure if that is always possible. Currently my boat is 3000 miles away from me in a yard getting work done. The rigger who works out of that yard is a friend of mine, and I know the boat is being watched.

I'm not worried.

UNCIVILIZED · 12-11-2014, 21:09

Okay, slightly OT, but bear with me. Perhaps we should start another similar thread called "Dumbest things done with 3M 5200. So that perhaps folks will gain 1 or 2 IQ points, to compensate for the imbecility that I hear of & see said compound being used for.

I think that it's some kind of medical affliction which occurs when people pick up a caulking gun full of it, causing their IQ numbers to drop below the freezing level.
Either that, or it's the INANE suggestions for it's use which I hear West Marine employees making to customers to use it for. UGH!

That stuff needs a tag spot welded onto the nozzle which reads: "Do not apply to ANYTHING which has the REMOTEST possibility of needing to be removed within 10 years, MINIMUM.".

Island Time O25 · 13-11-2014, 02:45

Kinda related to the topic.

Where I keep the boat for the winter the yard owner who is also a hauler junks boats selling parts, lead, etc. So over the past 10 years I got to see a lot of boats being junked. The saddest part is that most of the boats, about 70-80% are in still decent condition and just need good cleaning and minor repairs to be in sailaway condition. This is the proverbial "throwing away a car because the ashtray is full". Wish I kept a log with details of their junked boats. Would make an interesting review piece.

Also, I think I mentioned it in a thread about platforms, after I installed a swimming platform at the end of the season I noticed some supposedly SS bolts, which were WM bought and most likely "made in China" variety, started to bleed rust. I mentioned this to my boatbuilder buddy who helped me to make and install the platform. He traced the reason as to why some bolts did not rust to the fact that we misplaced some of the WM bought bolts and used old SS bolts from the yard which obviously were US made and still good years after their manufacture. So from that time on I prefer using bolts which I know for sure are SS even if they're old and were off some junked boat. I know some purists will rag on me for using 30 year old ss bolts but I think they're still better choice than the chinese made junk sold at exhobirant prices at WM. And I now always use a magnet when picking out the bolts of doubtful provenance.

**carstenb** · 13-11-2014, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Kinda related to the topic.

Where I keep the boat for the winter the yard owner who is also a hauler junks boats selling parts, lead, etc. So over the past 10 years I got to see a lot of boats being junked. The saddest part is that most of the boats, about 70-80% are in still decent condition and just need good cleaning and minor repairs to be in sailaway condition. This is the proverbial "throwing away a car because the ashtray is full". Wish I kept a log with details of their junked boats. Would make an interesting review piece.

Also, I think I mentioned it in a thread about platforms, after I installed a swimming platform at the end of the season I noticed some supposedly SS bolts, which were WM bought and most likely "made in China" variety, started to bleed rust. I mentioned this to my boatbuilder buddy who helped me to make and install the platform. He traced the reason as to why some bolts did not rust to the fact that we misplaced some of the WM bought bolts and used old SS bolts from the yard which obviously were US made and still good years after their manufacture. So from that time on I prefer using bolts which I know for sure are SS even if they're old and were off some junked boat. I know some purists will rag on me for using 30 year old ss bolts but I think they're still better choice than the chinese made junk sold at exhobirant prices at WM. And I now always use a magnet when picking out the bolts of doubtful provenance.

Martinsitic SS has magnetic qualites (meaning you can pick up such a bolt with a magnet) - that does not mean it will rust.

**HappyMdRSailor** · 13-11-2014, 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by minaret

Since we were also talking about bonding with methacrylates, I'll throw in a little taste of the sort of thing we get from the manufacturers. Click on the pics and read the labels. No, this is not a methacrylate gun, just showing off a bit...

OH MAN!!!
That looks aaaaaawesome!

You shoulda shown us this earlier... I forgot to ask to borrow your foam shaper for Halloween, and this would have been the perfect piece to accompany it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

still better choice than the chinese made junk sold at exhobirant prices at WM. And I now always use a magnet when picking out the bolts of doubtful provenance.

Instead of using a magnet for provenance... Why don't you use a good source??? Your chances for success are slightly better...

McMaster Carr
Fastenal
Bolt Depot