The Yard Guys

[minaret]

Originally Posted by minaret

Did you know the N52 began life as the Swan 53, before Nautor sold the molds to Nauticat and S&S redesigned the boat for Nauticat (it was originally their design for Swan)?

How could anyone possibly be so confused about this statement?

[neilpride]

How is going the progress in the Jeaneau Minaret? any update. Just curious, but hey dont feel forced to answer or post something related....

[minaret]

Originally Posted by neilpride

How is going the progress in the Jeaneau Minaret? any update. Just curious, but hey dont feel forced to answer or post something related....

All done! Prop shaft went in yesterday, rudder this AM. Didn't take many pics, I feel she's not a fair representative of the breed. Among other problems, like a loose strut, the rudder was found to be built of laminated ply with zero glass on it!

[neilpride]

Laminated Ply?? you mean Plywood? could be a aftermarket rudder or homemade rudder? anyway , trying to found a Swan 53 pilothouse but not luck this time, i guess they are a short production line by swan , maybe they are named Nautor 53 without the swan name on it....

[Exile]

Originally Posted by minaret

All done! Prop shaft went in yesterday, rudder this AM. Didn't take many pics, I feel she's not a fair representative of the breed. Among other problems, like a loose strut, the rudder was found to be built of laminated ply with zero glass on it!

You mean you don't want to unfairly malign the build of an entire brand of boat because the repairs on this particular one are not a representative example? Ah-Hah! We'll have to find another label for you other than "BWC". You do own what is undisputedly a bluewater boat, so it might be tough finding the proper category for you.

More interestingly, and since Neil got me going with that pic of a Contessa 32, I have learned that their rudders were all made of solid fiberglass (and a solid SS stock). Since water saturation seems to be a somewhat universal problem with rudders on all types of boats, why isn't this done more often? Is it that much more expensive to produce, or is it more about weight?

I also found it interesting that the Contessa - first introduced in 1971 (production has recently resumed in England) - has more of a modern-type fin keel than the full & modified full keels on boats from this era, although it is fully encapsulated in lead vs. bolted on. At 9500 lbs., 47% B/D, and a 9'.5" beam, it's reputation for seaworthiness is well-founded. Notwithstanding, the relatively high aspect ratio of the keel gives it respectable speed for a 32' boat with a 24' waterline. One of these classics that was ahead of its time I suppose.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

How could anyone possibly be so confused about this statement?
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Did you know the N52 began life as the Swan 53, before Nautor sold the molds to Nauticat and S&S redesigned the boat for Nauticat (it was originally their design for Swan)?

There are good reasons to be confused and the first one is the the Swan 53 is a famous fast fin keel boat from 1987 designed by German Frers (not S&S), and a design posterior to the Nauticat 52 (1982), this one (Swan 53):



the 1982 Nauticat 52, this one:

is an older model and has the hull not from a Swan but from a Nautor, the 1976 Nautor 50, this boat, a S&S design:



A Nautor is not a Swan. The boats were made by the same company but belonged to different lines, the Nautor line and the Swan line. The first Nautor was the 43 in 1976 and the last the Nautor 39 in 1977. They sold very few boats from that line, discontinued it in 1979 and sold the molds to Nauticat. The Swan line started in 1936 with the Swan 36 and they are still making them today.

The difference between the two lines were very big and while the Swans were very advanced designs for their time, performance cruisers and very fast boats (what makes them still very appreciated today) the Nautor were conservatively designs pointed to a more conservative clientele that did not show up.

Just to point to the very big differences in what regards boat design between the two lines I will post an image of the Swan that comes before and the one that comes after the Nautor 50, with the Nautor 50 design on the middle to be able to compare the differences in design. Compared with the Nautor both Swan, the newer and the older are incomparably more modern designs:
First the 1975 Swan 47 (S&S), then the Nautor 50 and finally the Swan 57(S&S)




All clear now?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

...

From Hunter Owners group.

There were 16 Hunters that lost their rudders as of 2005. Hunter was able to review 13 of the 16 lost rudders. Hunter concluded that..."most of which had been in use for more then two years...11 were well within the design and manufacturing tolerances. One rudder post may have had a manufacturing problem, while the other was within the design tolerance but did not meet Hunter's internal tolerance specifications." Hunter concluded that the composite rudder post was the problem. They concluded that the composite rudder post could have damages not readily visible to the owner. They offered Hunter owners with the composite rudder post a stainless steel rudder post at a significantly reduced cost. The owner was responsible for having the stainless steel rudder post installed. Some Hunter owners with the composite rudder post believe that if the failures were with the design and manufacturing tolerances for Hunter sailboats just over two year old, Hunter should pay for the full cost of replacing the composite rudder post with the new stainless steel rudder post. Fair Winds, Clyde Hunter News Letter about the rudder post problem http://www.huntermarine.com/Images/P...2005TuneUp.pdf


Polipop quote of the month, from a Hunter Owner...


After buying two new rudders for my h34 I decided to buy a better boat

Bavaria seems to have done better with their clients with that keel lost on the Match 42 (only one lost). They assumed the problem was a bad design (very optimistic regarding NA specifications) and they beefed up all boats with no costs for the owners. Not a very bright move from Hunter if they did not assumed all costs, specially in recent boats (2 years or even more).

Anyway the problem was identified and solved so it seems that there is no reason to keep bashing Hunters regarding a problem that they don't have anymore.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by minaret

Can you not read? It was a very short post. And my boat is listed right there next to my name, in every post, unlike you and your pal.

You seem upset. Remember, this is only an internet forum where people get to talk about boat stuff. It's really not that big of a deal.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Polux

Bavaria seems to have done better with their clients with that keel lost on the Match 42 (only one lost). They assumed the problem was a bad design (very optimistic regarding NA specifications) and they beefed up all boats with no costs for the owners. Not a very bright move from Hunter if they did not assumed all costs, specially in recent boats (2 years or even more).

Anyway the problem was identified and solved so it seems that there is no reason to keep bashing Hunters regarding a problem that they don't have anymore.

Agreed. That may be part of the reason Marlow owns them now.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by colemj

Minaret is talking about the 52/53, not the 42/43.

Mark

Thanks!

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Polux

There are good reasons to be confused and the first one is the the Swan 53 is a famous fast fin keel boat from 1987 designed by German Frers (not S&S), and a design posterior to the Nauticat 52 (1982), this one (Swan 53):



the 1982 Nauticat 52, this one:

is an older model and has the hull not from a Swan but from a Nautor, the 1976 Nautor 50, this boat, a S&S design:



A Nautor is not a Swan. The boats were made by the same company but belonged to different lines, the Nautor line and the Swan line. The first Nautor was the 43 in 1976 and the last the Nautor 39 in 1977. They sold very few boats from that line, discontinued it in 1979 and sold the molds to Nauticat. The Swan line started in 1936 with the Swan 36 and they are still making them today.

The difference between the two lines were very big and while the Swans were very advanced designs for their time, performance cruisers and very fast boats (what makes them still very appreciated today) the Nautor were conservatively designs pointed to a more conservative clientele that did not show up.

Just to point to the very big differences in what regards boat design between the two lines I will post an image of the Swan that comes before and the one that comes after the Nautor 50, with the Nautor 50 design on the middle to be able to compare the differences in design. Compared with the Nautor both Swan, the newer and the older are incomparably more modern designs:
First the 1975 Swan 47 (S&S), then the Nautor 50 and finally the Swan 57(S&S)




All clear now?

Yes, very clear. Clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. It seems if it can't be found by Google, you don't know it.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Laminated Ply?? you mean Plywood? could be a aftermarket rudder or homemade rudder? anyway , trying to found a Swan 53 pilothouse but not luck this time, i guess they are a short production line by swan , maybe they are named Nautor 53 without the swan name on it....

That's because Nautor never put the Swan 53 MS on the market, selling the design and molds to Nauticat before it ever went into production. Olin Stephens then spent 3 1/2 years redesigning the boat for Nauticat.


Yeah, I too doubted the ply rudder was bone stock!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

Did you know the N52 began life as the Swan 53, before Nautor sold the molds to Nauticat and S&S redesigned the boat for Nauticat (it was originally their design for Swan)?

Originally Posted by minaret

That's because Nautor never put the Swan 53 MS on the market, selling the design and molds to Nauticat before it ever went into production...

Sure, that's clear, the N52 began life as the Swan 53 but after all it never existed a Swan 53 because it was never built and the plans were not for a Swan 53 but for a Nautor 53. Now I get it. Thanks!

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Polux

Sure, that's clear, the N52 began life as the Swan 53 but after all it never existed a Swan 53 because it was never built and the plans were not for a Swan 53 but for a Nautor 53. Now I get it. Thanks!

Yeah, I was also shaking my head on that one - a bit of a stretch, even though I now understand his point. It would have been easier just to make that point up front.

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by minaret

Olin Stephens then spent 3 1/2 years redesigning the boat for Nauticat.

So was the original Swan design that bad, or did Nauticat really hate a good design?

Mark