The Yard Guys

[Polux]

Originally Posted by avb3;1701468...

Or do you expect to trade them in every 5 years?

No doubt I would do that if I had the money and there is many that have and do just that. Just go to my blog and on the last post look at the movies about the boats that are being tested for the European boat of the year contest: most of them are just beautiful and with amazing interiors. Why not have a better, nicer looking and faster boat each 5 years? it will give work to the boatbuilders, NAs and will allow yacht design to advance more quickly. All good things for one that loves boats.

[neilpride]

Thats funy, there is 3 guys here working for a full month in a Cyclades,
in another boatyard a guy living for 3 full months in the dirty boatyard waiting for a good moisture Reading in a FP osmosis thingy, now thats expensive!! and a solo french sailor with multiple dc corrosión problems in a Ovni ,, if you think a Swan is diferent you are wrong, expensive gear yes, but not so diferent to any other particular boat, i got the chance to have a chat long time ago with the Skipper of Kings Legend a S&S 65 swan, truly amazing boat, what they do is to chárter the boat in the carib in the season, cross the pacific to participate in the Hobart or chárter the boat in a Antigua racing Week, they sail the boat back to Finland every 3 or 4 years to make some short of refit or serious maintenance by Nautor, and like Kings Legend many other old clasic swans, after all they are like a cult..http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...f6V4lXmA9ofAKg

They dont deserve less, i like the new ones to, they are really well build it, no the clasic mass production BS, and i doubt you can found one in bad shape, the typical swan owner is not the kind of guy arguing the Price of a antifouling can, they need maintenance , yes, lots, but guess what? they can afford it....

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't understand what that is all about: There are many old Swans that the owners, or new owners decided to refit. Any old boat needs work from time to time. Why do you find need to post photos about that? On the marina where I picked up my boat they run a business recovering and maintaining old Swans. Plenty of work, the shipyard has more work with them then with any other boats (they are more and older). It is expensive to maintain an old top boat in pristine condition, good business for the cantieri.

Exactly!

The reason I post this stuff is to keep the conversation somewhat fair. As you say, ALL boats - even expensive "top of the line" boats - have deficiencies that need to be repaired from time to time. This is certainly not surprising to you or me - but it seems to get by many of the BWC who seem to think it's only "cheap production boats falling apart in the yards".

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Thats funy, there is 3 guys here working for a full month in a Cyclades,
in another boatyard a guy living for 3 full months in the dirty boatyard waiting for a good moisture Reading in a FP osmosis thingy, now thats expensive!! and a solo french sailor with multiple dc corrosión problems in a Ovni ,, if you think a Swan is diferent you are wrong, expensive gear yes, but not so diferent to any other particular boat, i got the chance to have a chat long time ago with the Skipper of Kings Legend a S&S 65 swan, truly amazing boat, what they do is to chárter the boat in the carib in the season, cross the pacific to participate in the Hobart or chárter the boat in a Antigua racing Week, they sail the boat back to Finland every 3 or 4 years to make some short of refit or serious maintenance by Nautor, and like Kings Legend many other old clasic swans, after all they are like a cult..http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...f6V4lXmA9ofAKg

They dont deserve less, i like the new ones to, they are really well build it, no the clasic mass production BS, and i doubt you can found one in bad shape, the typical swan owner is not the kind of guy arguing the Price of a antifouling can, they need maintenance , yes, lots, but guess what? they can afford it....

King's Legend is definitely a fine looking boat:

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Exactly!

The reason I post this stuff is to keep the conversation somewhat fair. As you say, ALL boats - even expensive "top of the line" boats - have deficiencies that need to be repaired from time to time. This is certainly not surprising to you or me - but it seems to get by many of the BWC who seem to think it's only "cheap production boats falling apart in the yards".

Smack, no one is saying the contrary, all boats need work sooner or later , like the rudder you post in the other topic, the swan 43 rudder, they are glad to have the rudder in the boatyard and the boat sound , but dont confuse things, Hunters they lost rudders like a Kid devouring candys, and in most cases by Factory shortcuts. Point here how many swans lost rudders out there, or keels ...

I got a Question? they still doing this piece of **** as rudder this days?
Just wonder.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Smack, no one is saying the contrary, all boats need work sooner or later , like the rudder you post in the other topic, the swan 43 rudder, they are glad to have the rudder in the boatyard and the boat sound , but dont confuse things, Hunters they lost rudders like a Kid devouring candys, and in most cases by Factory shortcuts. Point here how many swans lost rudders out there, or keels ...

I got a Question? they still doing this piece of **** as rudder this days?
Just wonder.

Are both of those photos from Hunters? What year?

Also - after poking around, it seems the bearing issues with the older Swans is pretty common.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

Did you know the N52 began life as the Swan 53, before Nautor sold the molds to Nauticat and S&S redesigned the boat for Nauticat (it was originally their design for Swan)?

I think you are confusing the Nauticat 42, a more recent boat and not designed by S&S, with the 1983 Nauticat 43. Regarding the design what I don't like on the Nauticat 43 is the house on top of the boat. The original Swan had nothing of that and besides that it only become an hull for Nauticat when Swan found it not obsolete and substitute it for a more modern design. The boat was designed in 1976 and was substituted in 1979 by the 441, a much modern design, a much faster boat and a very advanced design for his time, this boat:


This is the 1976 Swan 43



and this the 1983 Nauticat 43

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Are both of those photos from Hunters? What year?

Also - after poking around, it seems the bearing issues with the older Swans is pretty common.

Hunter 456, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...C-yVhYilO-K4rw

Even Wanderlust lost the same rudder.


From Hunter Owners group.

There were 16 Hunters that lost their rudders as of 2005. Hunter was able to review 13 of the 16 lost rudders. Hunter concluded that..."most of which had been in use for more then two years...11 were well within the design and manufacturing tolerances. One rudder post may have had a manufacturing problem, while the other was within the design tolerance but did not meet Hunter's internal tolerance specifications." Hunter concluded that the composite rudder post was the problem. They concluded that the composite rudder post could have damages not readily visible to the owner. They offered Hunter owners with the composite rudder post a stainless steel rudder post at a significantly reduced cost. The owner was responsible for having the stainless steel rudder post installed. Some Hunter owners with the composite rudder post believe that if the failures were with the design and manufacturing tolerances for Hunter sailboats just over two year old, Hunter should pay for the full cost of replacing the composite rudder post with the new stainless steel rudder post. Fair Winds, Clyde Hunter News Letter about the rudder post problem http://www.huntermarine.com/Images/P...2005TuneUp.pdf


Polipop quote of the month, from a Hunter Owner...


After buying two new rudders for my h34 I decided to buy a better boat

[smackdaddy]

I certainly wouldn't blame that owner with that many failures and hassle. From what I can tell, Hunter is currently using SS posts. Mine is SS.

[neilpride]

Certainly yes, but you know they swicht to hollow ss instead of solid stock and later swicht again to solid... and again ss hollow stock failing to.

Big concern is what happen with all the 450 460 owners sailing out there with those composite rudders??

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Polux

I think you are confusing the Nauticat 42, a more recent boat and not designed by S&S, with the 1983 Nauticat 43. Regarding the design what I don't like on the Nauticat 43 is the house on top of the boat. The original Swan had nothing of that and besides that it only become an hull for Nauticat when Swan found it not obsolete and substitute it for a more modern design. The boat was designed in 1976 and was substituted in 1979 by the 441, a much modern design, a much faster boat and a very advanced design for his time, this boat:


This is the 1976 Swan 43



and this the 1983 Nauticat 43

You think wrong. I meant exactly what I said. I have all the original docs on my boat; it's certainly not the first time I've posted about it around here. You appear to know very little about this line.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Exactly!

The reason I post this stuff is to keep the conversation somewhat fair. As you say, ALL boats - even expensive "top of the line" boats - have deficiencies that need to be repaired from time to time. This is certainly not surprising to you or me - but it seems to get by many of the BWC who seem to think it's only "cheap production boats falling apart in the yards".

Deficiencies, repairs, refits, and ongoing maintenance are not surprising to anyone who has ever owned a boat, spent time around boats, or worked on boats. I have yet to hear anyone indicate that only one brand or category of boats require more or less maintenance than others. Some are obviously more cheaply constructed and have maintenance issues related to how they were built, but they all have deficiencies.

Your so-called "BWC" is a figment of your imagination. A simplistic & juvenile way of attempting to label people who have preferences & opinions you don't happen to share.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by minaret

You think wrong. I meant exactly what I said. I have all the original docs on my boat; it's certainly not the first time I've posted about it around here. You appear to know very little about this line.

What is your boat? It is not this one, a 1983 Nauticat 43, with the same hull of a 1976 Nautor 43, a S&S design as you said?


http://sailboatdata.com/view_builder.asp?builder_id=188
NAUTICAT 43 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

The Nauticat 42 is a much more modern design (1995?), a much better boat, was not designed by S&S but by Kaj Gustafsson and the hull to my knowledge was not previously used on a Nautor.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=3779


If not of what boat are you talking about and of what Nautor do you say that hull comes. Are you saying that the hull of the 42 designed by Kaj Gustafsson was used on a Nautor (Swan) ? If so in what Swan?

[colemj]

Minaret is talking about the 52/53, not the 42/43.

Mark

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Polux

What is your boat? It is not this one, a 1983 Nauticat 43, with the same hull of a 1976 Nautor 43, a S&S design as you said?


Sailboats built by Nauticat - Siltala Yachts by year on Sailboatdata.com
NAUTICAT 43 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

The Nauticat 42 is a much more modern design (1995?), a much better boat, was not designed by S&S but by Kaj Gustafsson and the hull to my knowledge was not previously used on a Nautor.
NAUTICAT 42 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


If not of what boat are you talking about and of what Nautor do you say that hull comes. Are you saying that the hull of the 42 designed by Kaj Gustafsson was used on a Nautor (Swan) ? If so in what Swan?

Can you not read? It was a very short post. And my boat is listed right there next to my name, in every post, unlike you and your pal.