Why do people replace diesel engines in a sailboat?

[davenrino]

Originally Posted by moseriw

SIMPLE: they are stupid.

Color me stupid for replacing a 40 yr old Volvo MD7 that I couldn't get parts for and had to wait for and ship them from Europe to Hawaii when I could find WAY overpriced parts. Not to mention all the cooling ports in that raw seawater engine were only a quarter their original size. 3YM20 now.

[grootsee]

[QUOTE=Squanderbucks;2886390]I suppose for many of the same reasons they buy new to replace anything they own. I get the feeling from your post that you consider the engine an after thought and not something that is really something your care about other than when you may occasionally need it to get you through a specific spot.

Others may not feel quite the same as they may rely on theirs for a greater portion of their cruising and is of greater importance to their piece of mind.



"I get the feeling from your post that you consider the engine an after thought and not something that is really something your care about" Fascinating comment. I've read and reread the OP and fail to see how you arrived at that rather inflammatory viewpoint. A monied view as opposed to common sense, I suspect

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I expressed no disrespect nor disparagement.

And what I did express is all about **choices**, as you say. Not foisting anything on anyone, that's my whole point.

You appear to think that all humans live up to **your** philosophy of "safety and responsible" in order for you to respect them as equals on the water. Really?

Yes the OP was overstating things, but to do so in the opposite direction is **also** intolerance for the contexts and needs and preferences of others.

Millions of boats with zero ICE power, nor electricity, on board are swarming our Earth's waters, and I respect those captains as much as those of bigger ships.

And whatever they want to do, or not do, with their boat is up to them,

was really the point I was trying to make.

Sorry if I did not write that clearly enough.

Yes you are right. There are millions of little village fishing boats with exactly no safety gearat all. Mostly they just quietly live a simple existsnce from the sea. They have to, as thats all they have to survive.

They also regulary just never return home and it is unfortunately just accepted.

Anyone making a choice to Cruise as a lifestyle is in a different category should aim to be as self sufficient and not a burden on the society they live in. If you cant fit that criteria you are expecting others to clean up after rescue you, on their dime. It sounds a bit reckless and selfish to me.

I dont think that is fair. Unfortunately it costs something to play. If you cant pay you cant play. Pay can also be in the form of time, sweat equity etc.

[dsteinfeld]

Originally Posted by jcdexter

We replaced our Peugeot blocked Lehman because parts were simply unavailable for it. We couldn’t even get head gaskets. The Ford Lehman is well supported by American Diesal but the Peugeot blocked one is not.

We were spending winters in the Bahamas where service on any engine can be hard to find. However, the 75 hp Yanmar we installed was well supported parts wise.

Our 61 hp Lehman was running fine when we had it pulled but was beginning to smoke and leak a little oil. If we had been planning to stay in the US we’d have run it until it died. Being in a remote area with no hope of getting parts is one reason to pull a still running engine and replace it with a new one.

^^This^^
Same situation with the 4D50. Not to mention that the heat exchanger was vastly undersized for the engine. Also replaced with a Yanmar (50HP, normally aspirated). The engine hasn't been perfect but I no longer spend my weekends playing diesel mechanic...

[Jlp0217]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

Not to cause too much of a thread drift


How hard is it to obtain all the necessary parts to repair/keep a live and or rebuild a perkins 4-108? Is everything still avail? I have found a few places like trans Atlantic, foyer and a british based company...they all seem to carry most parts...are there some parts that have become obsolete?

I used to have an Atomic 4 and never worried about parts because of Moyer....but I just couldnt justify the $$$ they were asking for some of their parts...and still have a gas engine...so I bought a Beta 20....

I'm not sure about the 4-108, I have a 4-236 and it appears I can get any parts I could possibly need, except for a heat exchanger. My heat exchanger is held together with PB Weld and thread inserts. Next time it starts leaking I'm going to have to get a replacement custom made. Maybe the oil cooler would also be hard to replace, as it is a marine specific part too, but its not being eroded the way the heat exchanger is.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jlp0217

I'm not sure about the 4-108, I have a 4-236 and it appears I can get any parts I could possibly need, except for a heat exchanger. My heat exchanger is held together with PB Weld and thread inserts. Next time it starts leaking I'm going to have to get a replacement custom made. Maybe the oil cooler would also be hard to replace, as it is a marine specific part too, but its not being eroded the way the heat exchanger is.

Perkins Heat Exchangers | Perkins Manifolds | Perkins Oil Coolers | Perkins Diesel Parts
They have the heat exchangers they say.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jlp0217

I'm not sure about the 4-108, I have a 4-236 and it appears I can get any parts I could possibly need, except for a heat exchanger. My heat exchanger is held together with PB Weld and thread inserts. Next time it starts leaking I'm going to have to get a replacement custom made. Maybe the oil cooler would also be hard to replace, as it is a marine specific part too, but its not being eroded the way the heat exchanger is.

HX are not necessarily engine specific. Aftermarket sources do apply, like this:


Heat Exchangers 101: Sources for replacement Good Guys at Sendure

Good Guys at SENDURE & Heat Exchanger Source & Flix

[secrabtree]

The important thing! Change oil once a year in autumn - before the cold season.

The Perkins manual says to change oil every 100 hours. That's 4 days and 4 hours. On a 17 day passage fom San Francisco to Hawaii no change was required - I sailed. Coming back was a different story. And oil changes at sea aren't fun.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by malbert73

What did you install?

Beta 43

[Sailor 99]

I replaced my engine for the same reason everyone else I know did. It was not working correctly and needed a rebuild to some level. In our case constant blowing of head gaskets and over heating. 3 head gaskets was all I was giving it. We knew the engine was a problem and we factored that into the purchase cost of the boat. In my mind you simply don't run around in a 45,000lb 50 ft boat with an unreliable engine.



The cost of a rebuild is close to the cost of a new engine and you have old transmission, old injector pump, old alternator, old heat exchanger, old transmission cooler, old oil cooler.



The smart ones just bite the bullet and put a new engine in if they can find one that fits. That's what I did. Everyone I know who rebuilt their diesel regretted it and wished in the end that they simply replaced it.



A truck diesel or a tractor or excavator will get a million miles. Assume an average speed of 40 miles an hour and that's 25,000 hours out of an engine. Thing is they work hard climbing hills, and pulling loads.



Most sailboat diesel engines die with 1500 to 2000 hrs on them.


Sailboat diesels die early due to abuse, which you can read as not running them hard enough and long enough to get them up to correct operating temperature. You really need to be running these things at somewhere between 60 and 80% of hp, at least at the top of the torque curve The worst thing you can do is start your diesel engine to charge the batteries or make water or run it all day at 1400 rpm to conserve fuel It does not get hot enough and the cylinders glaze.



You will not kill a diesel by running it at 85% of hp as long as the prop is correctly sized. You will burn more fuel.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Another thread got me to thinking. Why is it that people decide to re-power?

Assuming you have a working engine, a diesel engine, what is the point?

I see a lot of people pull out older engines and put in a brand new one. I’m thinking of ones like an old Perkins. Sure, they look old. And they probably don’t get as great fuel efficiency as the new ones. But why replace them if they are still running?

Price out an oil cooler for a Perkins 4236 or a new heat exchanger and you soon learn why.

[LeGe]

[QUOTE=mikedefieslife;2886989]Most boat engines live a super easy life compared to cars trucks etc.. In monos at least, they are inside, protected from all weathers. Completely different kettle of fish but I remember honda testing the CB500 motorcycle engine to over 200.000 miles with nothing but the scheduled service. Plenty of diesel engined cars and trucks run until 250.000 miles without needing major work and they are more stressed.

It will take a truck about 4200 hours to drive 250,000 miles at 60 mph. Many older boats have more than 4200 hours on their engines. Looks like an older truck and an older boat have about equal engine hours on their power plants.

Just trying to figure out the point of the quoted post...

Especially the motorcycle engine part...

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

And people claim a Diesel won’t last unless run at high RPM.
These motors never saw above 1800 RPM, correct?

Its not about how fast you run the engine. Its about how fast you run the engine in relation to its design rpm.

You need to be running at the top of the torque curve or 60% of RPM or better. I got that from a Kubota engineer.



If you have a diesel with max RPM 2500 you can probably run it anywhere from about 1600 up successfully. If you have a small Yanmar with max RPM 3600 and you run it at 1600 rpm all the time you will glaze the cylinders and it will start to blow oil, and if it does not have crank case ventilation you will blow the main seals due to high crankcase pressures due to poor compression and blow by.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by Jlp0217

I'm not sure about the 4-108, I have a 4-236 and it appears I can get any parts I could possibly need, except for a heat exchanger. My heat exchanger is held together with PB Weld and thread inserts. Next time it starts leaking I'm going to have to get a replacement custom made. Maybe the oil cooler would also be hard to replace, as it is a marine specific part too, but its not being eroded the way the heat exchanger is.

Bowman Heat Exchangers in the UK should be able to help you if you are real keen on keeping the old 4236 going.


We replaced with a Beta 75 which unfortunately is only actually 66 HP by engine sticker and all other information that I can find so I am a bit miffed about that.


Hey Beta if you want to talk send me a PM




BUT.


I remember having the Perkins sales rep down to discuss putting in a new Perkins and we could not even talk over the sound of the 4236. The new Kubota is quiet.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

I replaced my engine for the same reason everyone else I know did. It was not working correctly and needed a rebuild to some level. In our case constant blowing of head gaskets and over heating. 3 head gaskets was all I was giving it. We knew the engine was a problem and we factored that into the purchase cost of the boat. In my mind you simply don't run around in a 45,000lb 50 ft boat with an unreliable engine.



The cost of a rebuild is close to the cost of a new engine and you have old transmission, old injector pump, old alternator, old heat exchanger, old transmission cooler, old oil cooler.



The smart ones just bite the bullet and put a new engine in if they can find one that fits. That's what I did. Everyone I know who rebuilt their diesel regretted it and wished in the end that they simply replaced it.



A truck diesel or a tractor or excavator will get a million miles. Assume an average speed of 40 miles an hour and that's 25,000 hours out of an engine. Thing is they work hard climbing hills, and pulling loads.



Most sailboat diesel engines die with 1500 to 2000 hrs on them.


Sailboat diesels die early due to abuse, which you can read as not running them hard enough and long enough to get them up to correct operating temperature. You really need to be running these things at somewhere between 60 and 80% of hp, at least at the top of the torque curve The worst thing you can do is start your diesel engine to charge the batteries or make water or run it all day at 1400 rpm to conserve fuel It does not get hot enough and the cylinders glaze.



You will not kill a diesel by running it at 85% of hp as long as the prop is correctly sized. You will burn more fuel.

there is just so much incorrect in this post .
I ran my semis well over a million miles between rebuilds.
They spend more than 60% of their their run time idling. Which means it shows no miles for those 10 or more hours each day . Just running the heater or the a.c. for comfort while sleeping .

My last boat had a volvo md1 with well over 10k hours on it .
Still ran like a champ.