Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-04-2017, 18:22   #1
Registered User
 
TooCoys's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: earth
Posts: 589
Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

As best I can remember, the running rigging on my boat was replaced by a previous owner somewhere between 2010 and 2012. My lines do not appear to be chaffed, or worn, but they are a little stiff and plenty dirty.

I've been trying to decide if I need to replace all the lines now, or if I can squeeze another season out of them.

It was suggested that I take them down and soak them in a diluted bleach solution, followed by a thorough and extensive rinse, and then soaked in some water with fabric softener in them.

My question is, do these lines appear too far gone for you, or can they be saved for one more season?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1059.jpg
Views:	618
Size:	424.8 KB
ID:	146064   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1058.jpg
Views:	632
Size:	433.2 KB
ID:	146065  

TooCoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 18:27   #2
Registered User
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 9,135
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Clean them and enjoy the boat. You'll know when they're too far gone by the jacket coming off of the core or excessive fuzz left behind from handling.
Sailmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 18:40   #3
Registered User
 
TooCoys's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: earth
Posts: 589
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Clean them and enjoy the boat. You'll know when they're too far gone by the jacket coming off of the core or excessive fuzz left behind from handling.
Ok good. That saves me another $300 this season, and none of them are that far gone yet. Haven't noticed any fuzz or any of them coming apart. Mostly just full of mold.
TooCoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 18:43   #4
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 22,370
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Second the motion for cleaning them, they look dirt-stained. Clean them by soaking with a little laundry detergent and water in a deep bucket. Agitate a little by hand after they've soaked a while (at least 5 min.) Air dry. People get shrinkage in the lines if they wash and dry by machine.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 18:44   #5
Registered User
 
TooCoys's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: earth
Posts: 589
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Thanks Ann!
TooCoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 18:46   #6
Registered User
 
scotty c-m's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: catalina 400 MKII
Posts: 238
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

I seem to recall a Practical Sailor article saying not to use bleach. It recommended, and I have used, a diluted solution of (Downey) fabric softener. It works well, in my experience. I'll look for more on bleach ...


Yeah, here's the link ....

https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...e_10509-1.html
scotty c-m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 18:47   #7
Registered User
 
TooCoys's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: earth
Posts: 589
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Thanks Scotty!
TooCoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 19:33   #8
Registered User
 
SV Bacchus's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Back on dirt in Florida
Boat: Currently in between
Posts: 1,338
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

They look fine in pictures but they have to meet your comfort level. I second nixing the bleach, it is just so harsh. I've always been told and gone the Downey route.
__________________
SV Bacchus - Living the good life!
SV Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 20:36   #9
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

From the pics, unless there are sections of your lines suffering from severe chafe that we can't see, then you can get several more years of service out of your lines.

Skip the bleach, seriously!!! Ditto on anything resembling a fabric softener. As some fibers, like aramids for example (Kevlar, Vectran, Technora, etc.), have serious bleach allergies. It will eat them up literally. And some of these chemicals are also Bad Juju for the line's proprietary anti-abrasion/anti-UV coatings (see below).

And personally, I pass on washing any lines that have parallel fiber internal cores. Particularly the ones which have cores that are encased in a proprietary fibrous tape, such as StaSet-X for example. As I'm thinking that washing such lines in a machine, might damage the coils & stacked wraps of their internal structures. That, or possible hockle or kink such types of cores.

Also, both before & after washing, make sure that you're lines are fully free of internal hockles or twists. As you don't want to set up the lines for a preventable, early demise. And it's good practice to check all lines for such things regularly anyway.

Otherwise, washing running rigging in the machine's fine. I've always just used a mild detergent in the washing machine. Sometimes dish soap, or even baby shampoo. And you shouldn't have a problem in most types of washers.
Once they're finished being washed & rinse, just let them hang/drip dry.

If you're worried about the lines potentially jamming the washing machine spindle, try seizing the loops of line together into a large O-shaped coil, in several places around their perimeter. And if you like, pad the shackles with an old sock folded over several times, & seized in place.

Bottom line, you're trying to get the salt & dirt out of the fibers of the line, as that's what eats them up internally when they're under load, due to internal abrasion. Think of the salt crystals & dirt as tiny belt sanders inside of the line. So to get the stuff out, some agitation while they're being washed helps.

However, if you wash them too frequently or aggressively, you'll wash off/out the protective coatings which are built into them. Such as the Samthane on Samson Ropes.
It's what makes them shiny & slippery; internally, & externally. With a big part of it's function being to enhance the abrasion resistance of the line; between the core & cover, as well as against external sources of wear.
As, for example, New England Ropes touts the coatings on their anchor rodes as being a key factor in what makes them significantly more abrasion resistant than other manufacturer's anchor rodes.

Also, see this thread -> Mouldy Halyards - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


The biggest thing that you can do to extend the life of your running rigging, is to prevent chafe, & keep them out of the Sun. The latter is pretty easy to do, as crazy as it may sound. Simply put a reeving splice into the tail of all of your halyards & reefing lines. Which takes 10 min per line to do, if that. And once that's done, it literally takes all of 3 min (max) to change out a halyard, or to pull it out for inspection.

https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...ing+Eye+Splice

Which, if you won't be using the boat for more than a week or two, take out your halyards, & replace them with halyard leaders. Leaders being purpose made substitute lines, made from 4-5mm cord. Stuff that costs all of $0.10/ft For example Samson Solid Braid Nylon Rope

It's fairly common to remove halyards on racing boats after every regatta for this reason, as it extends their service lives by YEARS. So given the cost of running rigging, it's well worth doing.

Also, take steps to lessen the chafe on your running rigging by:
- Adding an extra layer of cover onto your halyards in high wear areas, such as where they pass through line clutches, or are subject to heavy winching loads.
- Paint them with a line protectant such as Maxi Jacket II, or RP25. It increases their lifespan by 30-50%. See the below linked post.
- Ensure that all of your lines have fair leads.
- Ensure that your sheaves are properly sized for your lines. Both in terms of sheave diameter (minimum 8x rope diameter), sheave width, & sheave profile.
- Regularly inspect your lines for chafe, & your sheaves for any scoring that will accelerate line abrasion.
- Don't undersize your lines, thinking you'll be saving money. Stretch is pretty much the #1 line killer out there, usually caused by thin, stretchy lines (double braid dacron/polyester). Since as lines stretch, their fibers rub against each other internally, thus wearing them out prematurely.
- Buy low stretch lines, such as Spectra, Vectran, & Technora, etc. They cost more initially, but more than make up for this difference in the long run. Especially as Spectra is the most slippery line fiber available out there, & it's incredibly chafe resistant. So it vastly outlasts things like Dacron/Polyester.

- End for end your lines regularly, so as to spread out the loads & chafe which the different sections of them see. And with 12-strand single braids, routinely snip off worn splices, & put in a new one.

Maxi Jacket/Maxi Jacket II, & RP 25: What they are, & why you'll want to use them -->
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2367869

NOTE : ALL of the above also applies to; Docklines, Anchor Rodes, Roller Furling Lines, etc.

Tips on checking running rigging for stretch, AKA excessive fiber breakdown (otherwise know as wear) --> http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2367470

__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 21:24   #10
Registered User
 
TooCoys's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: earth
Posts: 589
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post

... The latter is pretty easy to do, as crazy as it may sound. Simply put a reeving splice into the tail of all of your halyards & reefing lines. ...


It's fairly common to remove halyards on racing boats after every regatta for this reason, as it extends their service lives by YEARS. So given the cost of running rigging, it's well worth doing.

I was wondering about that. I assumed I could use a small diameter type line to pull through the mast, to make them easier to re-install without having to climb the mast, but wasn't sure.
TooCoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2017, 21:30   #11
Jd1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 1,104
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

I wash my lines pretty well every spring to get all the crud and mold (from winter) out of them.
I use a front loader machine with only a small amount of detergent. I have never had a hockle or anything else.
I do not bother with the halyards since they are rarely used (furling for both sails)
Jd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2017, 08:24   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Mediterranean
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 50
Posts: 439
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCoys View Post
As best I can remember, the running rigging on my boat was replaced by a previous owner somewhere between 2010 and 2012. My lines do not appear to be chaffed, or worn, but they are a little stiff and plenty dirty.

I've been trying to decide if I need to replace all the lines now, or if I can squeeze another season out of them.

It was suggested that I take them down and soak them in a diluted bleach solution, followed by a thorough and extensive rinse, and then soaked in some water with fabric softener in them.

My question is, do these lines appear too far gone for you, or can they be saved for one more season?
It is very important to change your lines... When you a tired of the color. Mostly they will out last you.
lordgeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2017, 09:09   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Japan
Boat: '82 Mikawa MKII 30'
Posts: 97
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

I have used a garden hose with a pistol grip, a bucket and power detergent. Bleach is a no, no! I would be afraid of fabric softener, too, for reasons expressed above.
I had reefing lines that had been hanging from the boom for too long and they had become green and crusty. Same with the traveler control line. A good soak in plain water and then detergent added helped get the grime out. Now they are like new!
One method to avoid snarling and kinking in a machine is to put the rope in a "delicate wash" net bag. That avoids rope getting tangled on itself and getting kinked. But I steer clear of any machines on my braid!
For 3 strand mooring lines and the like, I have used a power washer. That cuts the algae real quick. But it is hard on the fibers, definitely.
Matsubob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2017, 10:50   #14
Registered User
 
buzzstar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ashore in So Calif.
Boat: No more boat (my medical, not the boat's)
Posts: 1,452
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Fresh water is the safest solvent, it works very well with a some overall agitation, a decent rinsing, and the natural drying process. Afterwards they may not look new, but they will not be physically damaged by the process, and will be much improved in appearance and feel. IMO they will live longer as well. I do have friends who claim the dirt, including salt, helps protect them, but, for what it is worth, I disagree.
__________________
"Old California"
buzzstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2017, 11:20   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,142
Re: Lines - To replace, or not to replace?

Synthetic lines have a lube internally that is there to prevent wear as the lines stretch and retract. Washing, soaking in various chemistry removes the lube and greatly shortens the life. Do it with old lines near their end.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chain plates - replace or not? Pilot Rob Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 13 20-10-2012 23:31
Replace standing rigging or not chris07732 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 14 14-07-2012 16:18
To Replace Rigging or Not (Yet) rhumbunctious Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 21 29-04-2011 20:59
Whether or Not to Replace Seacocks OrangeCrush Monohull Sailboats 15 10-03-2011 06:14
New Blackwater Lines - Success! (not THAT bad) bstreep Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 15-05-2009 15:38

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.