Why do people replace diesel engines in a sailboat?

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I have a great deal of respect for those sailors who have made the choice to repower.

I have a great deal of respect for those sailors who have made the choice to rebuild.
…
Point is YOUR priorities are NOT theirs and you should not attempt to foist yours on them, nor would they do so to you.

The varied CHOICES folks have shared here are important to learn from.

I expressed no disrespect nor disparagement.

And what I did express is all about **choices**, as you say. Not foisting anything on anyone, that's my whole point.

You appear to think that all humans live up to **your** philosophy of "safety and responsible" in order for you to respect them as equals on the water. Really?

Yes the OP was overstating things, but to do so in the opposite direction is **also** intolerance for the contexts and needs and preferences of others.

Millions of boats with zero ICE power, nor electricity, on board are swarming our Earth's waters, and I respect those captains as much as those of bigger ships.

And whatever they want to do, or not do, with their boat is up to them,

was really the point I was trying to make.

Sorry if I did not write that clearly enough.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I expressed no disrespect nor disparagement.

And what I did express is all about **choices**, as you say. Not foisting anything on anyone, that's my whole point.

You appear to think that all humans live up to **your** philosophy of "safety and responsible" in order for you to respect them as equals on the water. Really?

Yes the OP was overstating things, but to do so in the opposite direction is **also** intolerance for the contexts and needs and preferences of others.

Millions of boats with zero ICE power, nor electricity, on board are swarming our Earth's waters, and I respect those captains as much as those of bigger ships.

And whatever they want to do, or not do, with their boat is up to them,

was really the point I was trying to make.

Sorry if I did not write that clearly enough.

the op asked a question asking for specific inputs and we have been hopefully providing that via our collective experience dealing with this issue on our own vessels.

That being said when you get one I see it this way

Your boat your choice just don't expect me to pay for it .

And yes that would include a rescue if it was due to your own doing .

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by john61ct

>>>>>>>>>>>

You appear to think that all humans live up to **your** philosophy of "safety and responsible" in order for you to respect them as equals on the water. Really?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

was really the point I was trying to make.

Sorry if I did not write that clearly enough.

john,


You're right. You didn't.


I don't think this ^^^ is helpful either. Not what I said at all. Where do you make this stuff up from?


What is so nice about this thread is that people actually have shared their EXPERIENCES. You know, stuff that actually happened to them, and why they made the choices they did.


john, if you actually have any we're all ears.

My point is, trying to reduce all the possible risks is not a critical goal for everyone. When it's my time to go so be it.

Is what you wrote. What that means to me is that you misunderstood all of what folks have been saying about their choices.



They were not "trying to reduce all possible risks."



They were trying to reduce known potential serious propulsion failures.


Big difference.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

john,


You're right. You didn't.


I don't think this ^^^ is helpful either. Not what I said at all. Where do you make this stuff up from?


What is so nice about this thread is that people actually have shared their EXPERIENCES. You know, stuff that actually happened to them, and why they made the choices they did.


john, if you actually have any we're all ears.





Is what you wrote. What that means to me is that you misunderstood all of what folks have been saying about their choices.



They were not "trying to reduce all possible risks."



They were trying to reduce known potential serious propulsion failures.


Big difference.

that about sums it up quite well

[john61ct]

Yes and again, was just expressing my own feelings, as a counterexample, to show not everyone needs to (or has the means to) reduce risks much beyond those sailors have faced for millennia.

Not in any way imposing that on any y'all though, just a "not all sailors"

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by nhschneider

Frankly, I think that the original post is kind of silly. Who can argue against that for many, if not most, sailors consider their engines to be an important part of their safety gear? The peace of mind that comes with a new engine can give confidence that the likelihood of reaching a safe harbor if the ‘do-do’ hits the fan. Yeah, yeah, these are sailboats and any skipper worth his salt can maneuver his/her boat any place they want in any conditions. Right.

We removed a perfectly functioning Volvo from our boat before we started our circumnavigation and replaced it with a 90-hp Beta Marine, a decision which, in retrospect, was one of the better ones I’ve made.

Fair winds and calm seas.

I’m not sure it was so silly. If you have a functioning engine, yet it is a little older and out of date, why repower?

And we are hearing people’s experiences.

Doesn’t seem all that silly to me.

[thereefgeek]

Perk 4-108 here. I'm in no hurry to drop $20K on a new power plant. Sure, she weeps a bit of oil but she certainly has many hour left in her bones.

We've done a few things to improve her performance such as a K&N air cleaner and a new Racor fuel filtration system. The raw water impeller is easily accessible on the front of the engine, and dead simple to replace in a pinch. I installed new motor mounts and re-alinged the engine, tranny, and prop shaft a few years ago.

Just recently installed a Balmar 150 amp alternator with a serpentine pulley kit.

I figure that I add about a half quart of oil every 100 hours or so, but I keep oil pads below the pan, down in the bilge to collect the drips. The thing with Perks is that they absolutely refuse to die, so who am I to question that mechanical perfection? They're loud and they leak, but they're dead simple to fix, and parts are available around the globe.

A new Beta would be pretty sweet, but I'm more than willing to keep feeding my 4-108 oil and fuel as needed.

[wesevans]

Parts become difficult to find for some older engines.

[Cruiser2B]

Not to cause too much of a thread drift


How hard is it to obtain all the necessary parts to repair/keep a live and or rebuild a perkins 4-108? Is everything still avail? I have found a few places like trans Atlantic, foyer and a british based company...they all seem to carry most parts...are there some parts that have become obsolete?

I used to have an Atomic 4 and never worried about parts because of Moyer....but I just couldnt justify the $$$ they were asking for some of their parts...and still have a gas engine...so I bought a Beta 20....

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by stormalong

...…...I am also not a fan of engines that claim to be purpose built for marine use like Yanmar. That means limited market for parts, difficulty obtaining parts in many places and marine markup. That is why I chose Beta Marine Kubota based engines.

I re-powered due to concerns about reliability and smokiness of the existing engines 2 x 3GM Yanmar, and the state of the SD20 saildrives. I had intended to sail long distance (not now feasible due to health) so rejected the Beta 35 although like the engine. No concerns about Kubota parts, but beta specific items are a different matter.
Chose 3YM Yanmar - lighter (although less powerful) than the Beta. maintenance became simple as bits are much easier to access than the old 3GM. Much better fuel consumption. Much less vibration. Parts (although not cheap) available everywhere.

[oldbilbo]

'svspirited' at #4 is right....

I inherited an aged marinised Kubota tractor engine in an aged sailboat. It ran well enough, but I thought to take some guidance. Asking around at agricultural shows, I was directed by engineers to my region's top expert on Kubotas, who happened to run a sales, repair and maintenance business nearby - but 100 miles from the sea. So I sought out this 'old-style' guru, and his advice.


He said the unit I had was as old as he was, long obsolete, and parts would be very hard to find - even though he had contacts all over the Kubota empire. "It may well run forever," he told me, "but if something goes properly wrong, it would quite likely be necessary to remove the unit for work to be done in a proper machine shop. Anyway you look at it, that'll cost you yard fees alongside - and the boat will be out of commission for maybe weeks. The possible cost could easily be more than two-thirds the cost of a brand new engine with a parts warranty."


I preferred to have reliable sailing as my hobby, not 'fixit engineering', so I removed the old very heavy tractor unit, then bought and installed a fresh new Beta 14, solo.


The old unit sold 'as is' but working for almost one-quarter of the new to someone who knew their stuff. A pleasing bonus.....

[bvander]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Another thread got me to thinking. Why is it that people decide to re-power?

Assuming you have a working engine, a diesel engine, what is the point?

I see a lot of people pull out older engines and put in a brand new one. I’m thinking of ones like an old Perkins. Sure, they look old. And they probably don’t get as great fuel efficiency as the new ones. But why replace them if they are still running?

We had a Lehman-Peogot 50, ran well. But impossible to find parts, in one repair had to have parts machined. This was fine as we cruised the chesapeake and long island sound, but our plans we planned to go south and more remote areas as permament cruisers and felt we needed better reliability and better parts access. Thats why we repowered to a Beta 50 Naturally Aspirated engine. We sold the Lehman to a farmer in Ohio who uses it as an irrigation pump.

[Pete the Cat]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Their marketing says different. Try to find Yanmar parts in New Zealand or Tahiti. You will be spending a lot of money on air freight.

Yes. I chose a Yanmar to replace my Westerbeke and instead of Beta because the raw and fresh cooling systems are not “tack on” marinization system with multiple zincs needed to stave off the inevitable corrosion from hot salt water and the use of dissimilar metals. You need only to look at the two engines exterior to see the engineering difference. In fact, there is no need for zincs in the Yanmar. Folks are really taken with this idea that the small tractor block parts are dirt cheap because of the supposed high volume of tractors and the belief you can order parts through your garden store. Yanmar is the international source for marine engines world wide. The charter boats and new manufacturers are predominantly Yanmar for a reason. I appreciate that Beta is becoming a good competitor by trying to do it with better direct customer service (Yanmar tries to not cut out its local mechanics for a reason), intense marketing and promised support for the do it yourself folks. I also appreciate that they are paying attention to placing the filters in a more convenient location but the main problems with recreational boat diesels is short running periods, long storage, poor preventive maintenance, crappy fuel cleanliness, and the funky design and poorly maintained cooling systems. Not having the engine block fail or require parts. Most folks are not going world cruising, but if you are, you will find the hassle of importing parts through customs a real PIA and expensive, and you willl appreciate the ability of a foreign Yanmar dealer to have them or get them quickly (don’t ask how I learned this). Just an opposing view.

[Zacheria]

Has anyone had experience with marine diesels from China? (AliBaba.com) 2cylinder 14 hp with transmission and panel for $3500 landed in the USA? They have a manual in English and say parts can be bought from/through them. But no dealer network in North America so would service be a problem? Probably. It is tempting since my old diesel could be sold for something $$ - I'm not quite ready to roll those dice. Has anyone else?

[stormalong]

Wow, interesting comments on Beta Kubotas. I have had mine since 2003, installed myself. There is only one zinc in the heat exchanger. Now with over 4,000 hours and the only repairs have been a rebuild of the raw water pump and scheduled replacement of the fuel injectors. And the original tachometer failed - not a Beta part. Everything else has been normal scheduled maintenance. I have gone to tractor dealers in several countries for OEM oil and fuel filters - never a problem.

I have read about a Yanmar model that required removal a motor mount to replace the impeller - not very good marine engineering. The Yanmar requires a three inch exhaust for the 50 hp model. I didn't want to replace the two inch exhaust system when I replaced the engine. They are also higher revving engines and I didn't want to replace my V drive transmission.