Why do people replace diesel engines in a sailboat?

[Jim Cate]

Most sailboat diesel engines die with 1500 to 2000 hrs on them.

If engines are maintained to factory suggested schedules, the above statement is not true at all. Most will easily reach 5k hours, and 10k is not that rare.

Sure, you can kill an engine with neglect or misuse, but simple maintenance will avoid that murderous end.

Jim

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by newhaul

there is just so much incorrect in this post .
I ran my semis well over a million miles between rebuilds.
They spend more than 60% of their their run time idling. Which means it shows no miles for those 10 or more hours each day . Just running the heater or the a.c. for comfort while sleeping .

My last boat had a volvo md1 with well over 10k hours on it .
Still ran like a champ.

there is just so much incorrect in this post In your opinion....



But consider this... when your semi's were working they were working hard, pulling that load up hills and off lights etc. When they are slowing down the engine brake stresses things as well. That increases the heat and make the engine tighter which scrapes off the glaze. Even the marine engine manuals say, if your running light for 2 or 3 hrs you need to run hard for 20 minutes. So idling for 10 hrs is nothing when in the 11th hour your going to ask it to climb a mountain.



Most lightly run sail boat engines never get that run up in heat. In fact most of them run for 10 or 15 minutes to get in and out of the harbor. That is a killer.



Most sail boats I see around here needing new engines have much less than 2500 hrs on them. You might have seen different but I can't speak to that, only what I have seen.


If everyone got your results with their engines there would be no rebuilding or replacement industry. Most boats around here rarely see 10,000 hrs out of their slip.

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If engines are maintained to factory suggested schedules, the above statement is not true at all. Most will easily reach 5k hours, and 10k is not that rare.

Sure, you can kill an engine with neglect or misuse, but simple maintenance will avoid that murderous end.

Jim

I agree Jim, with proper care they should last forever and it was misuse that I was talking about and how that misuse occurs. I can assure you that none of them do it on purpose either. Its done out of ignorance.

Most of the ones I have seen replaced/rebuilt are not high hour engines.

My current boat is on it's 3rd engine. It got its first replacement in 94, and I replaced again when I bought it in 2013 after struggling with the engine for a year and being unable to get proper parts from Perkins for the serial number provided. Not Perkins fault I think.

My buddy has a sister ship. On its second engine.

Another fellow I know had to replace an engine on a Hylas 49. 2000 hrs

I know 3 people who had Westerbeke 33's that needed rebuilding and cost a fortune. All under 2500 hrs. 2 rebuilt and 1 changed to Beta. The Beta is the only happy guy.

I know of 4 Volvo 2003's that died early due to compression problems.

I can only report what I have seen. FWIW most boats up here on Lake Ontario do not see a lot of use except the race boats and they are fewer every year.

It's not like engines are dropping like files but every club and marina gets 1 or 2 a year. In fact just saw a volvo put back into a 32 footer on Tuesday.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

there is just so much incorrect in this post In your opinion....



.

as a marine service provider in what could be described as one of the boating capitol of the world.
My opinion is what people count on .

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

I agree Jim, with proper care they should last forever and it was misuse that I was talking about and how that misuse occurs. I can assure you that none of them do it on purpose either. Its done out of ignorance.

Most of the ones I have seen replaced/rebuilt are not high hour engines.

My current boat is on it's 3rd engine. It got its first replacement in 94, and I replaced again when I bought it in 2013 after struggling with the engine for a year and being unable to get proper parts from Perkins for the serial number provided. Not Perkins fault I think.

My buddy has a sister ship. On its second engine.

Another fellow I know had to replace an engine on a Hylas 49. 2000 hrs

I know 3 people who had Westerbeke 33's that needed rebuilding and cost a fortune. All under 2500 hrs. 2 rebuilt and 1 changed to Beta. The Beta is the only happy guy.

I know of 4 Volvo 2003's that died early due to compression problems.

I can only report what I have seen. FWIW most boats up here on Lake Ontario do not see a lot of use except the race boats and they are fewer every year.

It's not like engines are dropping like files but every club and marina gets 1 or 2 a year. In fact just saw a volvo put back into a 32 footer on Tuesday.

OK, you know some folks who have had engines that they replaced with low hours. I don't doubt this at all. I do doubt that it is typical over the world of sailing.

Lets see... good friends had a Bukh 36 in their Knot 40. It ran over 10,000 hours. They rebuilt it. It then ran just at 10,000 hours and they replaced it with a "remanufactured" engine from Bukh in Sydney. That engine died after only about 2500 hours. Upon inspection, the "remanufacture" came via a spray can of Bukh paint. But still, the original engine lasted a LONG time. They, BTW did the dreaded run of 60 minutes twice a day to cool down their giant fridge... thus the high hour count. Guess that if they had taken proper care of the engine it would have lasted even longer.

And then there was our own BMW D35. Had 6500 hours on the clock when we sold the boat, running well. Only issues were from raw water cooling, which led to some overheating issues from scale buildup... and which meant that it NEVER got up to proper operating temps, e xcept when it clogged up. Guess that engine would have gone a very long time if it had been FWC and run at 180 instead of 150 F.

And now we have a Nanni/Kubota with over 5 K hours, running well. I expect many more hours to come.

I could go through a list of acquaintances with long lived engines... mostly from the long term cruiser fleet. Really, we are the only yotties that normally put very many hours on engines. The "in and out" guys that you were talking about are not likely to get more than 100 hours a year, so it takes a hell of a long time to run up big hour counts. Often multiple owners are involved and sometimes one or more will be "maintenance free" owners, leading to early demise of their engines.

I've waffled on too long... just trying to say that it is not unreasonable to expect >5k hours from a yacht's auxiliary diesel.

Jim

[Icarus]

Obviousely if repairs or refurbishment of a 25 year old engine is not economical because of hard to obtain spairs.
On the other hand if the donk is in good working condition i would leave it that way.
A lot of boat owners use their vessels like car, if that what they want it's their decision.

I have a 30 year old ISUZU 3 cylinder in my yacht, starts first go,, no smoke, plenty of power to reach hull speed.

In my last boat i had installed 3 cylinder Lister, ran very smooth, lots of torque, quiet and easy to service. Ticking over a1800 rpm
So what does the new owner do, he replaced it with a turbo charged Yanmar at great expense...boat is noisier and hullspeed stayed the same..
If its not broken dont fix it IMHO

[john61ct]

I loved my old Listers in outback Oz, some were pre-war maybe WW1 and I bet still reliable AF.

The idea of replacing one of those still rebuildable, with something requiring clean fuel and electronics, just makes me sad. . .

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I loved my old Listers in outback Oz, some were pre-war maybe WW1 and I bet still reliable AF.

The idea of replacing one of those still rebuildable, with something requiring clean fuel and electronics, just makes me sad. . .

They all require clean fuel. That one is a constant problem to address on a boat regardless.

No electronics is one of the reasons why the Beta has become so popular as a replacement engine. I similarly appreciate that my Westerbeke 82B has no electronics & uses mechanical fuel injection. But then they all have their trade-offs, including obsolescence as a practical matter. The older engines you prefer aren't as efficient and so consume & pollute more. There is no "right" answer, and since making the decision to rebuild vs. replace is a costly one either way, the choices people wind up making strike me as being well thought out.

[john61ct]

Well for those keeping WSHTF in the back of their mind, minimal electronics is the only way to go.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Well for those keeping WSHTF in the back of their mind, minimal electronics is the only way to go.

Yeh good advice. Maybe a crank start model or perhaps even better a scull oar.
Tongue firmly in cheek.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Well for those keeping WSHTF in the back of their mind, minimal electronics is the only way to go.

that's the reason for reliability wtshtf like 3 am in a gale on a rocky lee shore.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Maybe a crank start model or perhaps even better a scull oar.

Absolutely, dead serious, can't get more reliable than that.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Absolutely, dead serious, can't get more reliable than that.

Oh? Never seen a broken oar? Everything has a failure mode...

Jim

[john61ct]

Yep, why I carry my Clamptite and heavy duty wire

https://clamptitetools.com/products/...clamptite-tool

[leftbrainstuff]

We have a Perkins 4-236 with over 4000 hrs. As an ex F1 mechanic I'm OCD of maintenance and ensuring all our systems are as easy to monitor and maintain as possible.

I have a pre oiler I run before starting. This is the key to longevity for most engines. Most wear occurs when cold and at startup.

I also run our diesel under load and avoid over revving and lugging. The ole Perkins will easily do 10 - 15k hours when maintained and run properly. It's as efficient as any modern diesel. The loads don't vary like in cars where more modern diesels are far more efficient and nicer to drive.

Just replacing our throttle and gearshift and rerouting and tuning our cables resulted in a smoother and more refined feel at the helm. It also has no electronics so I can repair it anywhere.

I recently replaced our exhaust elbow. I Also painted the bilge, replace the engine wiring harness and serviced the heat exchangers. I also replaced our wet muffler just to improve access.

I guess most people replace working diesels with something which they often equate with reliability and piece of mind.

There is no cheaper engine to rebuild than a Perkins 4 cyl diesel. If I do ever have to rebuild it I will. It will also get balanced and blueprinted to far closer tolerance a than when it was built. Just because I can.

Most marine diesels in recreational boats look poorly maintained and unloved.