Atomic 4 (gasoline) Engine

[GrowleyMonster]

There is a big difference between an A4 that is raw water cooled, and one that has a heat exchanger. Especially if it has ever been in salt water.



Like they said, Moyer for all things Atomic. I second the recommendation for electronic ignition upgrade. Also get the extended knurled carburetor needles. A spare too, yeah. And an electric fuel pump and all the goodies to install it. Eventually your mechanical fuel pump diaghram will probably go north on you, and your crankcase will fill up with gasoline. You can use a starter from a '42? Willys jeep. They have a forum where you can pick up a lot of knowledge. Moyer even has new cast iron blocks! These really are cool little engines if you don't mind gasoline. About 30k of them were put in boats in the 60's through the 80's, I think.



A Beta 10 diesel is pretty much a drop in replacement for the Atom Bomb, if you don't mind spending $8k and doing all the wrenching yourself, or paying a mechanic $3k to swap engines.


Or you could do what I did, and go electric.


Doesn't sound like that boat is a very good deal, though, all things considered. I would go maybe $3k if I were making an offer. After all, I got my current boat for $2k and it came with 10 sails in a transferable slip in a great marina. You could do better than that boat, for $7k, I am sure. Just be patient. Yeah, sure, you can fix her up and sail her. Upgrade all the way. Very few boats are beyond all hope of redemption. But some cost so much do put right that the previous owner should pay you to take it off his hands. Add up the cost of things you want to fix and multiply by three, then add the slip and insurance for the months it will be a dock queen waiting for recommisioning. If it still looks like a good deal, go for it. You can see and touch the boat and all I can do is read about it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by newhaul

all true or good ideas but one question why a new pump ? New seals and impeller should cure all ills.

Not sure, the boatyard is replacing it for the current owner.

When I checked it on Sunday, the pump is off the engine with the two hoses just hanging there.

I saw it when I was checking the oil which took a while to find the dipstick since it was to the rear of the engine. I should have looked at the pictures on Moyer Marine first

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by sagablu

In my uneducated opinion, not such a great deal. I picked up a 1976 10M 2 years ago for $7000 with a almost new headsail, VHF, new head, and a recent Yanmar 3GMF30.


Otherwise there was an issue with the chain plates that was resolved on my boat but I am not sure about 1975. You may wish to look into that and of course the well known mast step issue.


Please feel free to disregard my suggestions

You are totally correct and I know it, but I just like the boat even though it's been raced hard which stress cracks here and there

It rained all day Saturday here but I saw no water onboard besides what was at the bottom of the bilge and I had disconnected the battery because the fresh water pump came on after I turned a tap in head. (on Friday)

I reconnected the battery on Sunday and tested the bilge pump to make sure it was working but left the fresh water pump disconnected. (boat is on the hard)

This is s/n is 112 which is later than those with the chain plate problems. I rechecked Dan P's website and this one has the I-beams, etc

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Come to Minnesota. You can get a Cal 29' with a diesel for that. They just sold a Pearson 30 that had been retrofitted with a diesel.


http://www.hoopersyachts.com/Index.c...sedboatid=2453

This all started when I happened to end up in the middle of the Annapolis to Bermuda Race last month. (I thought back to the 10M I'd looked at last fall)

I was thinking with the 29' waterline of the 10M that maybe I could have seen a bit more of the race.

And even though I doubt I'd actually race more than once or twice/year the extra speed and performance would be nice

Pearson 10M PHRF 141. Cal 29 PHRF 183. Bristol 27 PHRF 240.

The leaders in the race had PHRF ratings of around 83 for the Navy 44 and the XP44 had one of around 21 possibly so I wouldn't have been with then too long but I was in a good position (to windward and ahead) when I first spotted them. There was a FRERS 45 near the two leaders also with a PHRF of 33

Navy 44 actually had the lead boat for boat when I first spotted them possibly due to some land breeze effect he received on the Eastern side of the bay near the Eastern Shore. I believe he won on PHRF and Sly the XP44 was first over the line when the got to Bermuda. The race had begun the day before at 1330. I spotted them at around 0800 the following morning

[Cruiser2B]

A4 is a solid engine and will run a very long time with a little maintenance.
I had one in my A30, it was upgraded to electronic ignition ignition and fresh water cooling...never failed to start in 5 years I own the boat.
My favorite thing about that little engine.....it's super quiet!
If you do end up with one I have a spare A4 for parts your more than welcome to

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

A4 is a solid engine and will run a very long time with a little maintenance.
I had one in my A30, it was upgraded to electronic ignition ignition and fresh water cooling...never failed to start in 5 years I own the boat.
My favorite thing about that little engine.....it's super quiet!
If you do end up with one I have a spare A4 for parts your more than welcome to

Thanks, Jason!

That's good to know. This boat was at my marina. A young navy guy (diver) has it now. I think he tried the liveaboard route for a while then got deployed etc. He's only daysailed it a few times.

The engine started right up from cold when he showed me the boat last fall

How's your Westsail 32? (still refitting the A30?)

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I don't know that one should rave about the engine. Jim had one in the Yankee. It only had two crankshaft bearings, fore and aft. So, it flailed around a bit.

thomm, if it runs well, use it while it lasts. It should be adequate. If you have access, it is easy to work on, like cars were a long time ago, now, lacking today's complexities.

Ann

Thanks Ann. That's sort of what I was thinking as in the maintenance since I've owned engines very similar to this one in autos, but it's the two slip fees that are the problem and I'm not ready to get rid of the Bristol yet

And the other small detail is I can sail due to my beach cat experience but you don't have to dock a beach cat. Most times you pull the boards and sail it right up onto the beach.

Docking this 10M singlehanded will take a while to learn especially in strong winds. I have two tillers on the Bristol to handle docking now. Plus the outboard can turn through about 180 degrees or more

Thanks for all the other replies also. lots of good info to consider

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

There is a big difference between an A4 that is raw water cooled, and one that has a heat exchanger. Especially if it has ever been in salt water.



Like they said, Moyer for all things Atomic. I second the recommendation for electronic ignition upgrade. Also get the extended knurled carburetor needles. A spare too, yeah. And an electric fuel pump and all the goodies to install it. Eventually your mechanical fuel pump diaghram will probably go north on you, and your crankcase will fill up with gasoline. You can use a starter from a '42? Willys jeep. They have a forum where you can pick up a lot of knowledge. Moyer even has new cast iron blocks! These really are cool little engines if you don't mind gasoline. About 30k of them were put in boats in the 60's through the 80's, I think.



A Beta 10 diesel is pretty much a drop in replacement for the Atom Bomb, if you don't mind spending $8k and doing all the wrenching yourself, or paying a mechanic $3k to swap engines.


Or you could do what I did, and go electric.


Doesn't sound like that boat is a very good deal, though, all things considered. I would go maybe $3k if I were making an offer. After all, I got my current boat for $2k and it came with 10 sails in a transferable slip in a great marina. You could do better than that boat, for $7k, I am sure. Just be patient. Yeah, sure, you can fix her up and sail her. Upgrade all the way. Very few boats are beyond all hope of redemption. But some cost so much do put right that the previous owner should pay you to take it off his hands. Add up the cost of things you want to fix and multiply by three, then add the slip and insurance for the months it will be a dock queen waiting for recommisioning. If it still looks like a good deal, go for it. You can see and touch the boat and all I can do is read about it.

Lots of good points to consider. Thanks.

I got my present boat for 2k also and even though I had to replaced the engine a couple times it's been great and was loaded with equipment to include old electronics, anchors, rode, autopilot.

I actually bought it for an education (on monohulls) and it has provided that

Saying that though reminds me that I've been through this once which will be helpful should I actually buy the 10M

The 10M is a beast, and has that 29' waterline plus a near 6' fin keel. it should perform quite well in the 12-18 knot wind range we have here on many afternoons. Plus it would get me home lots faster on Sundays after my weekend "cruises."

PEARSON 10M sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

[westcoastcruzer]

I have a 1981 C&C 34 with an Atomic 4 , and have considered replacing it with diesel but after balancing the price of a new Diesel and having attended courses on the installation and trouble shooting of Diesel's , I have decided to stick with it as is easy to maintain , parts are available at NAPA or thru Don Moyer . It probably has 5 to 6,000 hrs on it and has never been out of the boat , I have owned it for 18 years , Fresh water cooling is essential if used in salt water and regular maintenance etc . Use it until it breaks and then find another A4 to replace it .

[JOHNMARDALL]

This is John Mardall from Vetus Maxwell. Your post alarmed me. We haven't sold flexible (bag?) fuel tanks for some years and when we did sell them, they were intended for diesel, not gasoline. None of our tanks are intended for gasoline. If you buy this boat, drain that flexible tank immediately and take it to a hazardous waste disposal site. If you don't buy the boat, please forward this information to the owner - this is a dangerous installation.
IMHO, the Atomic Four is now a museum piece and money spent on it is money down the drain on something that will never be reliable or safe. Beta Marine still sell an excellent 25 horsepower diesel, based on a Kubota block, that will sit down on the narrow A4 engine beds and is cleverly marinized to facilitate routine service while tucked under the cockpit of a sailboat Speak to Stan at 252 249 2473 (North Carolina). You'll spend your boat time sailing rather than tinkering with an ancient engine.

We have no ownership interest in Beta Marine, but know from personal experience that they are great people.


Please be careful
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment

[30yearslater]

I'm quite happy with my A4. I looked at replacing with a Beta but can't see the $10,000 for engine, panel, new muffler, high rise manifold, etc. to change over. My reason for inquiry was to keep shaving weight of my old gal. Then consider a diesel needs to be run up against the governor to keep from sooting and stinking like a worn out bus. Then when the critters grow in the tank and clog filters because you burn a pint of fuel per year have fun with that. I still use points and condenser with an upgrade to the electric fuel pump. Gas works real well when idling in and out of a harbor and still moves my boat along at 6k when at 1800 rpms. Also consider a diesel spill is going to stink up the boat forever. With gas caution and maintenance without skipping a step are key. Most boats are burning gas without problems. 1976 engine raw water cooled but kept in freshwater all its' life and all cylinders are 120 psi +/ 5% compression.

[Chuck Hawley]

Hi,

You've received a ton of good information about the A4, so I won't repeat what's been said. However...

When I was in my 20s, I was asked by my dad to find a 30' sailboat for the family in the So Cal area, since the used boat market was huge, and I was in Santa Barbara. I went to a number of factories (Westsail, Ericson, Cal) and saw a ton of brokerage boats. At that time, the Cal 2-27 and 2-29 and many other boats had small diesels, generally one cylinder, and that was a big selling point for them.

I know this is a matter of opinion, but the A4 purrs like a sewing machine due to its small cylinders and low compression ratio. Presuming the waterlift muffler is in good shape, it's like have a turbine to power your boat compared to the 1 or 2 cylinder early diesels. I used to hear early Cal boats leave the harbor, and it sounded like the entire rig would shake off the step and into the water due to the vibration.

The other thing about an A4 is that, like an early Jeep engine, there is a high probability that you can solve what ails it, and it only weighs about 270# if you have to remove it (sans starter and alternator). Piece of cake.

Cheers,

Chuck

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL

This is John Mardall from Vetus Maxwell. Your post alarmed me. We haven't sold flexible (bag?) fuel tanks for some years and when we did sell them, they were intended for diesel, not gasoline. None of our tanks are intended for gasoline. If you buy this boat, drain that flexible tank immediately and take it to a hazardous waste disposal site. If you don't buy the boat, please forward this information to the owner - this is a dangerous installation.
IMHO, the Atomic Four is now a museum piece and money spent on it is money down the drain on something that will never be reliable or safe. Beta Marine still sell an excellent 25 horsepower diesel, based on a Kubota block, that will sit down on the narrow A4 engine beds and is cleverly marinized to facilitate routine service while tucked under the cockpit of a sailboat Speak to Stan at 252 249 2473 (North Carolina). You'll spend your boat time sailing rather than tinkering with an ancient engine.

We have no ownership interest in Beta Marine, but know from personal experience that they are great people.


Please be careful
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment

Sorry for the misunderstanding John, the Vetus Bag is for the head. (holding located under the V Berth, port side. I was told to replace it with a tank but the bag looks quite new)

I didn't know much about Vetus and all their many products

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by westcoastcruzer

I have a 1981 C&C 34 with an Atomic 4 , and have considered replacing it with diesel but after balancing the price of a new Diesel and having attended courses on the installation and trouble shooting of Diesel's , I have decided to stick with it as is easy to maintain , parts are available at NAPA or thru Don Moyer . It probably has 5 to 6,000 hrs on it and has never been out of the boat , I have owned it for 18 years , Fresh water cooling is essential if used in salt water and regular maintenance etc . Use it until it breaks and then find another A4 to replace it .

This one is salt water cooled still it appears.

I'm glad you've had such good "luck" with yours. You can get real "lucky" with good maintenance practices and fresh water cooling on engines I'm thinking

[sagablu]

Originally Posted by thomm225

You are totally correct and I know it, but I just like the boat even though it's been raced hard which stress cracks here and there

It rained all day Saturday here but I saw no water onboard besides what was at the bottom of the bilge and I had disconnected the battery because the fresh water pump came on after I turned a tap in head. (on Friday)

I reconnected the battery on Sunday and tested the bilge pump to make sure it was working but left the fresh water pump disconnected. (boat is on the hard)

This is s/n is 112 which is later than those with the chain plate problems. I rechecked Dan P's website and this one has the I-beams, etc

One more suggestion, don't get emotionally invested in a boat, there is always another one available. I like my Pearson for the same reasons you do, but if you buy a project that is beyond what you want to spend in time and money, you will regret it. Assume there are many things that need updating that you are not seeing now, it happened to me. Have you inspected the thru-hulls? I had to replace every one with new seacocks. Electrical system? Good or a rats nest that I am still working on?

Docking that is not too bad to learn. The first time I took the boat out I put it on the dock because I couldn't get to the mooring, low tide. Did ok. Learn to use springs, they will make you look like a pro!