Atomic 4 (gasoline) Engine

[JOHNMARDALL]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Sorry for the misunderstanding John, the Vetus Bag is for the head. (holding located under the V Berth, port side. I was told to replace it with a tank but the bag looks quite new)

I didn't know much about Vetus and all their many products

Thanks for letting me know - you had me worried. We like our customers to be satisfied and alive. Feel free to get in touch if you need help with anything. I've rebuilt quite a few old boats and after forty plus years of it, I still underestimate the time and cost, so be aware of what you're getting into with that good old boat - a lifetime of maintenance and refit work. If you enjoy that, as I do, make an offer, if not, keep looking. In my experience there's no such thing as a cheap boat and free can be the most expensive.


Good luck
John M

[JOHNMARDALL]

Originally Posted by 30yearslater

I'm quite happy with my A4. I looked at replacing with a Beta but can't see the $10,000 for engine, panel, new muffler, high rise manifold, etc. to change over. My reason for inquiry was to keep shaving weight of my old gal. Then consider a diesel needs to be run up against the governor to keep from sooting and stinking like a worn out bus. Then when the critters grow in the tank and clog filters because you burn a pint of fuel per year have fun with that. I still use points and condenser with an upgrade to the electric fuel pump. Gas works real well when idling in and out of a harbor and still moves my boat along at 6k when at 1800 rpms. Also consider a diesel spill is going to stink up the boat forever. With gas caution and maintenance without skipping a step are key. Most boats are burning gas without problems. 1976 engine raw water cooled but kept in freshwater all its' life and all cylinders are 120 psi +/ 5% compression.

Fair enough, 30, but I'm guessing that you've looked after that engine carefully for a long time (not many people can quote their cylinder pressures and variances). It's also a big plus that it's been in freshwater for its lifetime. I don't think any of that will apply to the engine our friend is looking at.
Keep up the good work!
John M

[Rhwins]

Have a compression test and have the oil analysed for metals to get a sense of the condition of the bearings. Remember, the sailing season in the northern Great Lakes is pretty short, so the engine didn't get 40 years of use- more like 10 years. I have an Atomic 4 in a 1976 C&C in Southern Calif (sailing 12 months a year), and given that it has a closed cooling system for salt water, it runs quite well but on the cold side. I am afraid to replace the thermostat because I could break off a stud and repairing that would be problematic due to limited access. Oil pressure was 20 psi at first, but after I changed the oil 3 times (in one day to eliminate contaminates) it came up to 40 psi. No doubt it doesn't have all the horses it once had, but it works fine. Wish it gave better gas mileage, but for the price, I can't complain. (Replaced the water pump for the same reason, rebuild was not much of a savings, and a new one was foolproof.

[rveldman1]

I have a 1974 grampian 30 with the original Atomic 4 engine in it. I've owned it for 22 years and have replaced the water impeller 10 times, normal maintenance, and the plugs about the same amount of times.it always starts immediatly, is very quiet (compared to diesel).

the downside of an atomic 4 is it consumes twice the fuel of a diesel. so if you sail your boat, there's no reason to shy away from it. But, if you are like many Cruisers out there who never let their engine shut off, you need a diesel.

[alexanick]

I bought my first boat, a 1960 New Horizon, built in Toledo by Ray Greene Industries. A 25', designed by S & S, one of the first fiberglass ones and it had an Atomic 4. I had it for 12 years and I replaced one water pump impeller and two complete tune-ups. Always started and never had an issue with it. I bought my second boat, a 1970 Cal 29, at the end of 2015. One of the key factors I was looking for in a boat was it had to have an Atomic 4. On Lake Erie, I want my boat to have a good, reliable motor. The A-4 fills the bill. I have had two issues since the purchase. The first, would start right up run indefinitely, then die just like somebody turned it off. This was a sporadic issue with no way to rely pinpoint the problem. I replaced all tune up components, the coil and installed electronic ignition. The problem persisted. This year, I put the boat in the water, started it right up, ran for ten minutes and died. Couldn't start it. After an hour, I got an idea. My boat has a push-pull on-off switch and a starter button. I decided to leave the boat off, press the starter button and pull the on-off switch on. Started right up. Soon as I let go of the switch, it died. Replaced the 48 year old switch,( $9.00) BINGO. No more problem.
The second. Because of health reasons, I did not winterize it properly this past year. Ended up with a leak in the head and the exhaust manifold. Moyer Marine had the parts, installed them myself with awesome advice over the phone, from Moyer. It started right up and runs great. Moyer was so helpful, I believe the technician from there would have driven to Cleveland if I asked.

So, IMO, you can't go wrong with an A-4.

[Bill Seal]

Another down side of the A4, since there only 2 main bearings, rods #2 & #3 depend on the generosity of #1 & #4 for their oil. Years ago, going from San Diego to Santa Cruz Island, we thought we were being kind to the old thing by only turning it at about 1500 RPM. The low oil pressure starved the middle journals and took out the crank.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL

I've rebuilt quite a few old boats and after forty plus years of it, I still underestimate the time and cost, so be aware of what you're getting into with that good old boat - a lifetime of maintenance and refit work. If you enjoy that, as I do, make an offer, if not, keep looking. In my experience there's no such thing as a cheap boat and free can be the most expensive.

Good luck
John M

Thanks.

I have a Good Old Boat now I paid $2,000 for. (1974 Bristol 27)

I don't so much rebuild them as make sure they are reasonably strong then I sail them. I've been sailing this one for 7 years now quite often. (but the outboard was new in 2011)

I did replace the diesel with an outboard but have done no structural repairs

The Pearson 10M looks strong but needs so much: anchor, VHF, autopilot, head tank, depth finder, dodger, and then the engine is old

But I could use my handheld VHF for a while, then go without the autopilot at first. I could see how the Vetus Bag does for holding,

Then go without the dodger and try to repair the depth finder and anemometer

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rveldman1

I have a 1974 grampian 30 with the original Atomic 4 engine in it. I've owned it for 22 years and have replaced the water impeller 10 times, normal maintenance, and the plugs about the same amount of times.it always starts immediatly, is very quiet (compared to diesel).

the downside of an atomic 4 is it consumes twice the fuel of a diesel. so if you sail your boat, there's no reason to shy away from it. But, if you are like many Cruisers out there who never let their engine shut off, you need a diesel.

I have a 5 hp outboard on my 6600 lb Bristol. I motor (motor sail) if I have to get back for work. Usually I'm sailing though. I didn't have motors on my first four sailboats

If I did buy the Pearson, it's pointing ability would probably mean I wouldn't motor as much as I do now which isn't a lot

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Fiveslide

Hey, thomm. I've seen your boat on Craigslist, along with that Pearson 10m you're looking at. For that kind of money, I would see how much the owner of that Apache 37 will negotiate before going too far with that Pearson! I saw that boat in person several years ago and liked it.

I'm not sure about those iron keels also......

[hamburking]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with most of the posts here. I've owned two A4 engines myself, and "enjoyed" several others on friend's boats.

They are an incredible engine that will last forever if you keep changing the oil, and don't run it at WOT all the time (as many people love to do).

The leaking water pump may simply be a loose cover plate...who knows until you have a closer look.

Moyer Marine (online) sells everything you need. And there is vast knowledge of A4 repair, especially among older mechanics.

As I said, I've owned two of them. One in a C&C 27, and the other in a Paceship 29. And there was never a problem I could not fix myself. New wires and plugs. Replaced blocked fuel lines. Replaced the impeller easily once I bought a pair of snap ring pliers (less than $10). I even had the alternator rebuilt...took it off and reinstalled myself, no problem.

My issue with that engine is that its too thirsty. It drinks gasoline like someone that drinks a lot and is really thirsty. It lacks range. A diesel gives you range.

Change your oil. Check for cooling water over the stern EVERY time you start, and frequently when running. And enjoy. In the distant future, when apes take over the earth, their boats will all be powered by old atomic 4 engines, running perfectly, blowing just a little black smoke when they startup.

I also recently owned an old Pearson 30 (for 5 years). Pearson made good boats. Solid. You should be fine. The 10m is a little sparse below, but I bet she's really fast.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by alexanick

...would start right up run indefinitely, then die just like somebody turned it off. This was a sporadic issue with no way to rely pinpoint the problem.

I had a similar problem. It would run fine, then sputter and die with a cloud of black smoke out the back. But I could start it right back up again. Finally, would not start at all. Most of the fuel line was copper, but there was a rubber/plastic section that was disintegrating into the fuel. Every time a "chunk" would come loose, it would run through the engine causing trouble. Finally, the fuel line became totally blocked. I don't know how the chunks got through the filter, but they did. $5 for a new fuel line, and lesson learned.

On my other A4, several years later, it would just stop after about 20 minutes. Then after a break, would start up again. Spiders had built a nest in the fuel tank vent line, entirely clogging it up, causing a vacuum in the fuel tank. Two days of head scrathing, followed by one minute with a wire coat hanger, and I was back in business.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with most of the posts here. I've owned two A4 engines myself, and "enjoyed" several others on friend's boats.

They are an incredible engine that will last forever if you keep changing the oil, and don't run it at WOT all the time (as many people love to do).

The leaking water pump may simply be a loose cover plate...who knows until you have a closer look.

Moyer Marine (online) sells everything you need. And there is vast knowledge of A4 repair, especially among older mechanics.

As I said, I've owned two of them. One in a C&C 27, and the other in a Paceship 29. And there was never a problem I could not fix myself. New wires and plugs. Replaced blocked fuel lines. Replaced the impeller easily once I bought a pair of snap ring pliers (less than $10). I even had the alternator rebuilt...took it off and reinstalled myself, no problem.

My issue with that engine is that its too thirsty. It drinks gasoline like someone that drinks a lot and is really thirsty. It lacks range. A diesel gives you range.

Change your oil. Check for cooling water over the stern EVERY time you start, and frequently when running. And enjoy. In the distant future, when apes take over the earth, their boats will all be powered by old atomic 4 engines, running perfectly, blowing just a little black smoke when they startup.

I also recently owned an old Pearson 30 (for 5 years). Pearson made good boats. Solid. You should be fine. The 10m is a little sparse below, but I bet she's really fast.

Thanks. Good information.

The water pump has already been removed. Owner is having the boat yard replace it.

If I buy, I may even wait another year before I launch it since it's getting late now and I'm busy at work

I'm thinking the fuel consumption may not be a problem because I'll probably be working for a few more years

When I do cruise, I may just run the coast South going in and out during good weather windows back down and around maybe to the Gulf where I lived for years.

In the meantime for my weekend/vacation cruises, this boat will give me a bit more range. Plus it's pointing ability will help when returning. I usually sail North from here and many times to get back I have to sail directly into a SW Wind and on the Bristol (full Keel, 19.75 LWL) it can take a while.

Return course when motoring with my 5 hp is 240 degrees. Turn on autopilot and relax because it's going to take a while. (find a book or enjoy the sky/sunrise while lying on a lazarette locker) This if it's calm, not wind, small waves. Big wind, big waves sail. A little wind but left over big waves try to motorsail

The 29' plus LWL on the 10M would definitely come in handy. That and the near 6' fin keel. I'm used to sparse also with my present boat and most of the others I've owned

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Cruiser2B

Got divorced and sold A30 partially refit, hated to let it go. However, I had to sell my home so the boat project had to go
I love the Westsail, it really handles the bay when it gets "sporty". I moved aboard last summer. But have a lady in my life so liveaboard status didn't last longbiggrin:
My W32 is right across creek from you...you'll have to come check it out.

Sounds good and I'm glad you met someone.

The Westsail sounds like an awesome boat. I'd like to see it sometime

You said you still have the A4? Was the replacement due to problems with the A4 or just that you were planning long distance cruising and/or total refit of the Alberg?

I never heard you complain out the A4 not running though

[Classicsailboat]

The majority of your time will be motoring, so get a diesel.

[wwarrington]

I recently bought a 1963 Islander 32 with the original A4 in it. I had a compression test done on it and it checked out okay. It ran pretty good but after all the time a money I put into the rest of the refit I eventually switched it out for a new Yanmar 3GM30. I have the original paperwork from Moyer marine and a video if you want it