Batteries?

[Chris777]

Thanks guys, To ansera a few questions. I am limited to group 31's due to myn battery box----- NO I am not rebuilding. Equipment survey at SSCA shows Trojans as the most widely used with the lowest failure rate. Everything is a compromise. So trying to find a sensible way..... we will see.

[Hoosiersailor]

And for wiring your batteries in parallel here is a good reference with explanation. Depending on how many batteries you have in your bank it's not as simple as you would think to do it right. SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank

[Chris777]

Originally Posted by Hoosiersailor

And for wiring your batteries in parallel here is a good reference with explanation. Depending on how many batteries you have in your bank it's not as simple as you would think to do it right. SmartGauge Electronics - Interconnecting multiple batteries to form one larger bank

Thanks, That was very helpful...

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Chris777

Thanks guys, To ansera a few questions. I am limited to group 31's due to myn battery box----- NO I am not rebuilding. Equipment survey at SSCA shows Trojans as the most widely used with the lowest failure rate. Everything is a compromise. So trying to find a sensible way..... we will see.

Yes Trojan is a great maker, but that rep is based only on their FLAs. Same with Rolls.

The other FLA makers I listed are all G31 and at least as good.

In case you missed the many people telling you above why FLA is much better value than AGM, you have not stated why you want to pay so much more for a less robust and shorter life bank.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by contrail

Agreed, they are pricey, but I think far more folks are PSOC challenged than realize it, particularly when one factor's in the faster charge acceptance rate of more deeply discharged batteries!

High CAR lead makes a difference of under 10% overall charge time.

When someone does become aware of their PSOC abuse, my point is other solutions are usually much cheaper.

And if the owner doesn't have the means to regularly follow the "capacity restore protocol" he won't get any added value out of the extra money spent.

Originally Posted by contrail

However, he was as astounded as I was that Fisheries had some, in stock. Ordered mine a couple of weeks ago....should be here in the BVI any day. Took the time to call all the dealers. They had 110 group 21's at the time!

Big retail bypassing the distribution network, dealing with India direct, who's giving Bruce the shaft.

No way to run a railroad that.

I'd *much* rather deal with Bruce & co if warranty issues arise!

[contrail]

Originally Posted by john61ct

High CAR lead makes a difference of under 10% overall charge time.

When someone does become aware of their PSOC abuse, my point is other solutions are usually much cheaper.

And if the owner doesn't have the means to regularly follow the "capacity restore protocol" he won't get any added value out of the extra money spent.


Big retail bypassing the distribution network, dealing with India direct, who's giving Bruce the shaft.

No way to run a railroad that.

I'd *much* rather deal with Bruce & co if warranty issues arise!

LIghten up! Sorry, but you are jumping to a conclusion to buttress your argument. They are absolutely NOT "big retail bypassing the distribution network" but one of Bruce's own distributors. I kept him in the loop the whole way and asked who was next to receive batteries? He gave me their name, along with other distributors, and I took the time to call directly, which others may not have done. They actually had some from a previous pallet. Why the inventory discrepancy? Who knows. I don't, and I doubt you do, either. Perhaps a cancelled order, perhaps an oversight of some sort?

I respect your determination and advocacy of FLA golf car batteries. I have studied them and used them for, um 24 years mostly Trojans but also Rolls, by the way), with another 11 years of other types, gels, whatever. I get the advantages and have often advocated them. I fact, I bet there are numerous posts on this site in which I make their case. But, I keep an open mind and try to stay up with advances, and I concluded that, for many, not all but certainly not just me, the Firefly's will pay for themselves with ease.

Over the years, my contexts have variously been full time marina live-aboard, cruising liveaboard who never touches a dock, something in between, charter boat, etc. etc.

My current context is a combination of all the above. 45 foot cat. About a 100 days of live--aboard charter per year, some cruising, lots of time at anchor, a good bit of time at a dock with shore power available. The boat has a good sized generator, air con that may be used, when on charter, for 15 hours per day in the summer, to a few hours in the winter (all Caribbean), and 900 watts of solar. I am going from a 960 AH capacity of Trojan FLA golf car batteries to a bank of 696 AH of Firefly Group 31's and think I will be well ahead of the game.

Almost every serious sailor (or at least cruiser) butts up against PSOC issues, eventually, even though they may not realize it. And, depending upon your equipment, the protocol for the Fireflys may well be less tedious and more forgiving than equalization of FLA's or Lifelines (which I considered VERY carefully). And, of course, many AGM's don't allow equalization.

The Firefly also allows routine discharges of 80% compared to Lifeline or FLA recommendations of 50%, which is why one can spend a longer time in the much more efficient bulk and acceptance stages of charging and can have a smaller battery bank. Like lithium, but not as extreme and not as costly. A serious charter boat is a business, and we put dollar values on all of these things. And guests appreciate minimizing generator hours at anchor.

But, enough about my case. With all respect, it doesn't sound like the OP wants to spend too much of his time on maintenance; we know he has limited space and doesn't want to modify that, so he has excluded the possibility of using FLA golf car batteries. Period. So his true deep cycle options are really limited. Perhaps he realizes that equalization and watering of batteries is just not how he wants to spend his time. Those could be very good reasons FOR HIM to go to the expense of another type of battery, gels, traditional AGM's or Carbon Foam AGM Fireflys. Different strokes for different folks.

For my part, I am eager to see how the Fireflys work, in practice, for me. In due course, I shall report objectively. And, I can assure you I will be continuing to chat with Bruce along the way, and not by-passing him, as accused!

[Chris777]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes Trojan is a great maker, but that rep is based only on their FLAs. Same with Rolls.

The other FLA makers I listed are all G31 and at least as good.

In case you missed the many people telling you above why FLA is much better value than AGM, you have not stated why you want to pay so much more for a less robust and shorter life bank.

Not sure I understand what you are getting at here. My goal is to get max amps for the house bank. Why? Because I want to!. Bigger the bank the less % of unload per 24/hr's = increased longevity...... The AGM's apear to produce much more amps than regular led acid (wet) batteries. What would you do? My box is limited to 23 1/2" x 21 1/5 x 9 3/4".

[a64pilot]

Because they would fit in the box, where golf carts would not, Is the biggest reason I went with AGM.
However I admit never having to water them is nice

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by contrail

as accused!

you misunderstood, not accusing you, nor would someone buying direct from the Indian direct sales guy be doing anything "wrong"

They got my email somehow and invited me to try the new sizes their factory has been producing.

I told him I prefer to stick with Bruce, and have bought quite a few G31s now, for where PSOC has proven unavoidable.
Just a preference. . .

And Lifeline is the only AGM still equalizes.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Because they would fit in the box, where golf carts would not, Is the biggest reason I went with AGM.

But there are plenty of non-GC but FLA models from excellent makers, even G31 size specifically, as I've listed, now twice.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Chris777

The AGM's apear to produce much more amps than regular led acid (wet) batteries.

What makes you think that?

20-hour load is the standard rate for comparing House batts

Those Trojans AGMs are rated at 100AH

Crown 31T-1000 and Deka / Duracell SLI31MDC are 105AH

US Battery 31DCXC are 130Ah !


As stated earlier, not as good value as GC but *much* better than going AGM unless you really need to.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

you misunderstood, not accusing you, nor would someone buying direct from the Indian direct sales guy be doing anything "wrong"

They got my email somehow and invited me to try the new sizes their factory has been producing.

I told him I prefer to stick with Bruce, and have bought quite a few G31s now, for where PSOC has proven unavoidable.
Just a preference. . .

And Lifeline is the only AGM still equalizes.

When my 1 year old Northstar AGMs failed the factory came up with an equalization procedure. It didn'r help, both batteries were shot. Warranty support from the factory was pretty much go jump in a lake.
The retailer felt sorry for me and gave me two demo Victron AGMs that worked really well for a long time. I'd never spend another penny with Northstar.

[hellosailor]

"They got my email somehow and invited me to try the new sizes their factory has been producing. "
Funny how that happens. And here I was thinking, gee, maybe I really did contact someone in India to ship lead batteries halfway around the world to me, and I'd simply forgotten about it.
They can't ship enough to fulfill their channel, but they're shaking the branches and looking to sell direct? That's just...not flattering.

[Chris777]

Originally Posted by john61ct

What makes you think that?

20-hour load is the standard rate for comparing House batts

Those Trojans AGMs are rated at 100AH

Crown 31T-1000 and Deka / Duracell SLI31MDC are 105AH

US Battery 31DCXC are 130Ah !


As stated earlier, not as good value as GC but *much* better than going AGM unless you really need to.

Looks like we will go with 2, 8D if we can afford them. At 20 hr they rate at 230 amps, and the 31's at 100/105. So the 31 will give me 400/420 at 20 hr's the 8D's 460 at 20 hrs. This is the only 2 that measurs up to my 9 3/4 height limitation.

[sailjumanji]

I had three Deka Group 31 AGMs rated at 105 amp hrs last twelve years before one of them failed in 2015. I replaced all three. In the summer and on cruises, they live solely supported by 240 watts of solar and a Blue Sky three stage controller. Cruising they had full time refrigeration and freezer load, lights, instruments, watermaker, etc. Only time they saw shore power charger is in the winter when solar effectiveness can be affected by cloudy weather for days, and shadow of my house.

Service from the Deka AGMs was so good I paid retail price to get them as replacements. You need to have utmost confidence in your battery bank and solar, IMHO.