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Paul J. Nolan · 24-05-2016, 16:08

I think there's a lot of good advice in this thread! Even the conflicting advice is interesting (although you can disregard any advice that conflicts with mine!)

On a more serious note, I agree that you will never get your money out of any boat you rebuild (the sole exception in my lifetime being JFK's old wood Starboat which went for $80,000 IIRC. That guy got his money out!) Some men like to build or rebuild sailboats. They want to create something, they want to use their skills, they want a certain boat a certain way...many different reasons. If this is you, I say fine! Go for it. On the other hand, if time and money are important to you, it is much, much better to be patient and buy the boat someone else has rebuilt. Every boat has her own price range and no matter how nice she is, she will eventually sell for a price in or very close to that range. For instance, an outboard-powered Catalina 27 will sell for $3-7,000 depending on condition and equipment. Even adding a full suit of brand new North sails, which I guess would cost $11,000-15,000, to a pristine C27 will not increase her value much beyond seven grand. Most buyers would be more impressed with an electronic chart plotter than a suit of sails. This works greatly in favor of the knowledgeable, patient buyer.

It has been my observation that a real bargain, a great boat at a great price comes along about every six to nine months. Tim Lackey is a highly skilled professional with a complete shop; it still took him years to rebuild a motorsailer in his spare time. Before he finished the project, his needs changed and he sold the boat. Something to think about. (The story is on his website under Momentum.)

(Re)build her, buy her... either way I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted.

Paul

P. S. And remember the words of the wag who said, "The most expensive boat you'll ever have is the one you got for free."

Paul J. Nolan · 24-05-2016, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by QBF

The Ranger 30 was designed by Raymond Hunt
RANGER 30 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Thank you for pointing that out. I still learn something new every day!

Paul

hsi88 · 24-05-2016, 16:42

I'm on my second "recondition". About a year of work, working 1-2 weekends a month. Very rewarding. If you like working on things.

Job one. Clean out the boat. Remove anything that is loose or damaged beyond repair. Next, clean, clean, clean. You will need a way to pump or drain the water. I also bring some cheap box fans to move the air and help dry things out.

I start with the nooks and crannies (compartments). Spray everything down with dollar store mold and mildew cleaner. I then use a small pressure washer. I use fan spray for wood. If wood Ok, I don't spray it at all. Once the boat is pretty clean, your outlook will improve almost immediately.

If you go with an outboard, not a problem. But whatever outboard you choose, do yourself a favor and get one with remote controls and electric start. There is NO way you will be able to start the motor, shift it into gear and control the throttle without MUCH hardship!

I have a 30 foot Catalina that is on the hard. Same deal. Nasty interior. But otherwise in decent shape. Has a rebuilt diesel, but as a fan of redundancy and because I have to move the boat a pretty good distance, I mounted an outboard on the back as well. 9.8 Nissan with remote controls and electric start. And an engine mount with 16 inches of travel and rated for a 230 lb. motor. Not a pretty boat right now, but I can get it moved to my slip with only a few weekends of work. From there, I'm working on the boat, listening to summer bands at the local watering hole and loving life!

hsi88 · 24-05-2016, 17:21

Addition: Just made it through your pictures. Some of those thru-hulls are indeed a little spooky as someone else pointed out. Would replace them when you eventually pull the boat. Also, plug those holes. Moisture is your enemy. Something worth trying on the wood is a combination of Tung and Cedar Oils. I have had very good results bringing life back to worn and cracked teak. Protects what is left of the wood and buys you some time while giving it a much better look. Depending on the location, I often live with the cracks. I also use Kilz stain blocking primer over the raw fiberglass compartment interiors. But only after a really good washing using a mixture of TSP and Oxyclean. I use Bar Keepers Friend (oxalic acid) on wood and tough stains as well as MK On/Off but the later has fumes almost too potent to use inside, even with fans. Of course, this comes after the mold and mildew cleanup. I use Kilz paint instead of bilge paint in most areas because its cheaper and does a nice job on places above any standing water. It has mold preventers in it as well. Bilge paint renews the bilge. Have fun and Good luck!

clockwork orange · 24-05-2016, 18:05

Its a Ranger 29 NOT a ranger 28. Big sister to the 23 and 26, nothing at all like the 28 which had extreme tumblehome in the topsides and a low blister style cabin, an IOR boat. All the Ranger line were very good sailing boats, we have quite a few of the 26s around here and they were good racers in their day.

AcousticBruce · 25-05-2016, 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

When I said $10K+ I was being polite....

Let alone, resealing the entire toerail, all of the way around the boat. Which, if it's bolted together, like on a 33', you're looking at several galvanically siezed in place, bolts per foot.
Then scraping, & or grinding out the old sealing compound. Adding in some new, & bolting things back together.

Either that, or structurally fiberglassing the hull & deck together, inside & out. Which takes ages, & is miserable work.

Look at it this way. On a car of that vintage, which had been sitting exposed to the elements for many, many years, what wouldn't you expect to have to replace?

Besides, with a bit of looking, you can find a R-33 in Good shape, for $10K, with Lots of gear, & a diesel.

I take in all you have added on this thread. I am not sure I want to do that type of work. Is it necessary to reseal the entire toerail? Did you see something from the pictures?

AcousticBruce · 25-05-2016, 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan

I think there's a lot of good advice in this thread! Even the conflicting advice is interesting (although you can disregard any advice that conflicts with mine!)
...
It has been my observation that a real bargain, a great boat at a great price comes along about every six to nine months. Tim Lackey is a highly skilled professional with a complete shop; it still took him years to rebuild a motorsailer in his spare time. Before he finished the project, his needs changed and he sold the boat. Something to think about. (The story is on his website under Momentum.)

(Re)build her, buy her... either way I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted.

Paul

P. S. And remember the words of the wag who said, "The most expensive boat you'll ever have is the one you got for free."

I am still debating this very thing. The truth is I do have a lot of time. I do not find working on a boat a waste of time at all. Though I do want to sail. I do not want a year long project for my first boat.

I can gather about 5k in the next couple months. I am really starting to think the A4 that should be on this boat is what I really want. In order to install a used one, I imaging it will be expensive, even with my mechanical ability. I would not mind spending the money, but if everything else will fall apart around it because of structure, well, that will not be worth it.

AcousticBruce · 25-05-2016, 08:19

I really appreciate all of the responses. Excellent advice from all different perspectives.

UNCIVILIZED:
You mentioned something about an old Mast and gear. Is all of this stuff going to need to be replaced as well?

Whats wrong with using the sails that are inside the boat in a bag?

MY situation:
I have about 3200 saved in my boat funds. I can get 1k a month easily to work on any boat. I also live rally close to the docks and I have lots of free time. I can easily spend 20 hours a week on the if I wanted.)

Soon I will have a remote position Python developer job which will make all this MUCH easier to tackle. So as far as wasting money, I am not sure I will be unless I get an absolutely terrible condition boat. I am still trying to figure out if this ranger is.

An inboard engine:
If I was to get a used A4 and install it, what am I looking at costwise? Lets say all of the stuff was removed. I am just curious, I am not sure this is something I want to do unless the boat was perfect condition, but its still worth getting some information. UNCIVILIZED when you itemized a list of things to the boat, I learned a lot and appreciate the feedback.

AcousticBruce · 26-05-2016, 08:13

After being offered this beautiful "free" boat, I got incredibly excited and did not want anyone to tell me I am wrong. I bought a couple books by Don Casey, "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat" and "This Old Boat". After reading through Inspecting the Aging Sailboat, I feel a lot more equipped to go and do a thorough inspection.

Also after speaking you people at the forum and getting sense knocked into me, I really have let-go of my fixation with this boat. Right now, I can say I am ok with getting the boat or NOT getting the boat. This is a much better state mentally.

I am going to the boat this weekend and will probably spend 4+ hours on it inspecting it with all the new tools I have learned from the book. If this is not my boat, at least I get some great experience inspecting

I just want to thank you all again. I still go back and reread a lot of these posts.

TacomaSailor · 26-05-2016, 08:36

"I really have let-go of my fixation with this boat. Right now, I can say I am ok with getting the boat or NOT getting the boat. This is a much better state mentally. "

That is an excellent point from which you can make a more objective analysis of the boat and it's potential.

I've bought and sold many
- sports cars
- hot rods
- motorcycles
- bicycles
- sailboards

over the years and it always goes the same way:

- Lust
- First visit or viewing
- Love
- Wait a few days/weeks
- Read a bunch about the thing I have to have
- Talk to objective friends
- Visit and view again
- Recognize the warts, problems, potential
- Consider the dozens of similar options that are available
- Buy it or Leave it

I've purchased some beauties that turned out to be dogs:
- BSA Rocket motorcycle I was going to ride from Virginia to Seattle. First day of ride 200 miles into trip the clutch disappeared. Opened engine case and found the prior owner had hammered the threads on the bad clutch adjustment and there was NO way to remove or adjust

And some dogs that captured our hearts for a very long time:
- 10 year old SAAB 900 that was just going to get me from Mexico back to Seattle and now, 14-years later I still use it daily. I've replaced everything mechanical in the car and have spent at least 5x it's value on upgrades. But, I love that red car and will keep it forever.

TIME and information is your best ally in your decision making.

Cheechako · 26-05-2016, 09:13

"Also after speaking you people at the forum and getting sense knocked into me, I really have let-go of my fixation with this boat. Right now, I can say I am ok with getting the boat or NOT getting the boat. This is a much better state mentally. "
That is a great state of mind to be in, it took me years but eventually I got to that point when buying boats. "Not emotionally involved."
The best cheap boat you can buy is one where the PO made the mistake of buying the fixer, spent tons of time and money, and now is disillusioned and selling.. for little more than he paid in the first place!
During the recession I could have bought an Islander 30 with a new Yanmar diesel (3 cyl), New standing rigging, New main and genoa and new roller furling. $5-6k

**Don C L** · 26-05-2016, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

"Also after speaking you people at the forum and getting sense knocked into me, I really have let-go of my fixation with this boat. Right now, I can say I am ok with getting the boat or NOT getting the boat. This is a much better state mentally. "
That is a great state of mind to be in, it took me years but eventually I got to that point when buying boats. "Not emotionally involved."
The best cheap boat you can buy is one where the PO made the mistake of buying the fixer, spent tons of time and money, and now is disillusioned and selling.. for little more than he paid in the first place!
During the recession I could have bought an Islander 30 with a new Yanmar diesel (3 cyl), New standing rigging, New main and genoa and new roller furling. $5-6k

Ain't it the truth!

CoolBeans · 17-09-2016, 07:18

The best way to save money on a boat is to not buy one

The best way to spend a lot of money on a boat is to buy any boat

I personally think it all becomes a wash if you plan to keep the boat long enough. Cheap boat now, expensive for a few years, then cheap for a long time till it needs a refit. Expensive boat now, cheap for many years, expensive when time to refit.

Just sayin

reed1v · 17-09-2016, 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolBeans

The best way to save money on a boat is to not buy one

The best way to spend a lot of money on a boat is to buy any boat

I personally think it all becomes a wash if you plan to keep the boat long enough. Cheap boat now, expensive for a few years, then cheap for a long time till it needs a refit. Expensive boat now, cheap for many years, expensive when time to refit.

Just sayin

You just reiterated the Law of One Price. No way to get around it.