Why Do We Make It So Hard Sounding

[MicHughV]

Sailing and flying a small plane have some similarities..in essence, both are relatively simple...one moves in water....the other in air...either could, ostensible be done by someone with little or no experience..and have in fact, been done by people with little experience, but to do either well, takes a certain level of skill, training and knowledge.

That's why we have sailing courses and flying lessons....

I learnt to fly....the flying part was easy....but all the rest...not so easy....

Same with sailing.....in my early years, I could go from point A to B, but it wasn't always pretty. I thought I knew what I was doing, until I had a pro onboard...I learned I wasn't doing it well. There were a myriad of things the pro showed me that I didn't know, realize, understand, comprehend, etc....it was interesting....he would tweak a few things here and there, and all of a sudden, I was going 1 knot faster...this is when I started to pay attention.

None of the things were hard to do, but knowing how to do well them was hard.

[StuM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM
According to the OP and some others, we don't need to know those things to be a sailor.

It's absolutely BS that I said people shouldn't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]
It's absolute BS to claim that I said poeple shouldn't know.


But I cerntainly read these parts of the original post as saying that you need to know very little:


"But batteries are easy and have run into LOTS of boaters who l know nothing more than whether the warning light was on and their batteries pretty last as long as everyone else."

"Anchors have been around pretty much as long as boats and started as a rope of hemp tied to a rock! How hard can that be???

"boats aren't bumper car bouncing off each other so how hard is it compared to driving you car on the highway surrounded by the other idiots?"

I'll leave it up to you to check back on what those "some others" said

[Nauticus]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Why do we make sailing/cruising/boating sound soooooo hard?

I know that when I decided to sail/cruise the ASA Fundentials made it seem so hard. My wife would read 'how to tack' and go "How are are the two of us going to do that. Based on the book it seems to need 5 people?" Turns out sailing is easy and truly was the easiest thing to learn about living/cruising on a sailboat.

Then there are batteries. Forums make understanding your system seem like it requires a pHd in physics, electrical, and magic. But batteries are easy and have run into LOTS of boaters who l know nothing more than whether the warning light was on and their batteries pretty last as long as everyone else.

There there are anchor threads!!!! Why does every anchor thread read as though everyone but that poster does it all wrong? Anchors have been around pretty much as long as boats and started as a rope of hemp tied to a rock! How hard can that be???

Nav rules why does a 1 paragraph rule with 2-3 sentences require an explanation of 6 pages. And as the "discussion" progresses pretty much proves no one understands the rule (at least it seems that way) and yet boats aren't bumper car bouncing off each other so how hard is it compared to driving you car on the highway surrounded by the other idiots?

Sailing/boating/cruising is easy! Stop making it seem hard so you seem "special". And lets let idiots weed themselves out some. Their issues are not because it is hard, it is because they are ............... idiots!

Everyone has pretty much nailed it already. I look at it this way. The basic keelboat course is fairly easy and I've found everything I learn builds off that foundation. I don't look at it as, holy crap I have a mountain of new info, skills etc to learn rather just the current one I'm working on and how that works with what I've already absorbed.

Lessons learned from "adrenaline" aka Holy s*it moments tend to stick the longest. Sad to say I've learned that the hard way.
Know your limits and then test them. Drill in crappy weather. Drill at night.

I make up a "what if" list on small pieces of paper. When I'm out sailing I pull a couple out of the jar and send that info to my daughter. She'll randomly text me one of the what ifs over the course of my sail and I treat that as the event suddenly happening.

But my goals are different than most here. I've got 15 years to learn and drill before I get to do my big lap. I'm doing it solo so when stuff happens, as it surely does ( Murphy always stows away onboard ), it's just me against the world and I have to be ready. That's where it excites me. Preparing for the ultimate test of myself.

Fair winds [emoji569][emoji846]

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by StuM

Quote:

But I cerntainly read these parts of the original post as saying that you need to know very little:

Well you can win then because it is important to YOU that the whole thing appears hard. I bet I mentioned this in port #1.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Well you can win then because it is important t
o YOU that the whole thing appears hard. I bet I mentioned this in port #1.

Nope, it doesn't appear hard to me at all.

I've taught lots of people to sail, both formally on Learn To Sail and Inshore Skipper courses and practically as crew. I've never come across someone that couldn't learn what wasneeded to be a proficient sailor.

A lot to learn - yes.
Hard to learn - no.

As a SAR skipper, I've assisted quite a few people in command of boats that have no place on the water because they lack the knowledge of simple things like basic pilotage, radio procedures and COLREGs as well as how their boat equipment works.

[Jamme]

I*am sure neither Sailorboy1 nor anyone else here is advocating ‘blissful ignorance’.

Sailorboy1’s OP (as I understand it) strikes a chord in me; I read “hard” and “easy” in the context of the OP as synonymous of “discouraging” and “encouraging”.

For instance: have you ever read the Glénans sailing manual, and compared it with the Chapman’s Piloting book?

The Glénans is so passionate — it pushes the reader to*learn by even making small mistakes (hopefully before making a big one); it also entices the reader with the poetry of a perfect sailing maneuver... in other words, it “encourages” sailing.

The Chapman, on the other hand, seems (at least to me) a dry list of the thousands of things you are not supposed to do and the thousands of things that can go wrong... It makes sailing sound “hard”, intimidating, almost unpleasant... Just like comparing a love story with a grammar book — both somehow deal with English language, both may be essential... But one is definitely less fun to read!

...So, back to the OP: I guess it’s about whether you are reading a thread with the intent to just learn the very basics (in which case a 100-post anchoring thread may appear “hard”, intimidating or discouraging), or instead trying to perfect an art — in which case, there is no right or wrong, and each and every experience (and post) is more than welcome...

Fair winds to all

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Jamme

For instance: have you ever read the Glénans sailing manual, and compared it with the Chapman’s Piloting book?

Anyone suggesting that a newbie starts with Chapman's is doing them a gross disservice. There are plenty of basic "Learn To Sail" books out there that take it in simple steps. (But they do still cover the appropriate nomenclature for boat parts and rigging)


Here's a few more appropriate books:
Sailing for dummies
Sailing Made Easy
Learn to Sail: The Simplest Way to Start Sailing
Sailing: The Basics:
Sailing - The Fundamentals


Going back to the OP's question: "Why Do We Make It So Hard Sounding?"

Answer: Most of us don't.

If you were given that impression iwhen starting out, I feel sorry for you, you were mislead by whoever introduced you to sailing.

[MicHughV]

a thought to consider...

I've been sailing now for nigh on 40 years, but I was unable to teach my wife to sail...I can't really explain why.....she had to take a "women's only" sailing class taught by a woman to women....

I don't think things are " hard sounding" per se, but it all depends on who is doing the talking and who is doing the listening.

She thinks I yell at her and get short tempered and think she is stupid.....none of these are true...she is actually a marvel on board.

I try to explain "sailing" things to her, but she thinks I get too technical.

I explain things as I know and see them...maybe the fault is not that she not a good learner, but that I'm bad teacher..I don't see things from her point of view, I see them from mine.

Everyone has seen a group of women together. They can all talk simultaneously to each and understand everything, everybody is saying....

Men are not able to do this...we have to talk one at a time.

Good communication and teaching ability is a skill. I saw this in my college years as well. There were professors that could explain complicated things in simple terms so we could easily understand them. Others took simple things and tried to explain them in complicated ways, leaving us all clueless.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by jmh2002

But speaking of learning, you see multiple comments here that some cruisers aren't even interesting in learning the correct names for the different ropes onboard, and even think that this is somewhat silly, so...

First thing I learned was...there are no ropes on a sailboat!

I don't think "we" make it sound so hard. I think the people who think they know more than most people and write books make it sound hard so they can sell their books.

Today there is an over-abundance of information (some of which is contradictory) which adds complexity and confusion. (see Death by Information Overload)

But, isn't the premise of this thread a bit oxymoronic? I mean...the idea that "we" make sailing sound hard yet at the same time the vlogs of people with zero experience set off in sailboats are lauded seems a bit contradictory to me.

[sailingabe41ds]

Thanks to Jamme I am ordering a used copy of Glenans....I have a copy of Chapman and I thought I had developed ADD while reading it.

Abe

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailingabe41ds

Thanks to Jamme I am ordering a used copy of Glenans....I have a copy of Chapman and I thought I had developed ADD while reading it.

Abe

Excellent move..

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Discovery 15797

First thing I learned was...there are no ropes on a sailboat! ...

Boltrope
Bellrope
Soap on a rope?

It's not hard. Perceived to be maybe. Doing anything well takes more effort than just slap it together, close enough for government work.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Bottom piccy is ready to leave,

Cheers, Brian,

Well Mr B, I'm glad to see you have completed the rebuild. That was for sure a lot of work so bravo.

The discussion on this thread is pretty funny. Ever watch a Skip Novac video of sailing the southern ocean? He makes it look easy. I'm pretty sure it's hard and if you asked him, it is. Again, for those looking out from a dock, a cut, or a mooring anchorage all day, it probably does look easy. When you actually go out, it gets harder. The further you go the harder it gets, until to doesn't get any harder.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Sailing and flying a small plane have some similarities..in essence, both are relatively simple...one moves in water....the other in air...either could, ostensible be done by someone with little or no experience..and have in fact, been done by people with little experience, but to do either well, takes a certain level of skill, training and knowledge.

That's why we have sailing courses and flying lessons....

I learnt to fly....the flying part was easy....but all the rest...not so easy....

Same with sailing.....in my early years, I could go from point A to B, but it wasn't always pretty. I thought I knew what I was doing, until I had a pro onboard...I learned I wasn't doing it well. There were a myriad of things the pro showed me that I didn't know, realize, understand, comprehend, etc....it was interesting....he would tweak a few things here and there, and all of a sudden, I was going 1 knot faster...this is when I started to pay attention.

None of the things were hard to do, but knowing how to do well them was hard.

I had the same thought when reading the original post. It is quite simple to make the boat go, make it stop, and make it stay...Same as an airplane. It's not difficult to take off, fly, and land. I think that it's easy to feel overwhelmed with either, when detailed sail trimming lessons are thrust upon the newbie who is just happy to be sailing. The same goes for flying, even though "drinking from a firehose" is a well proven training tactic. Although sailing can be life and death, it's not unreasonable to head to wind, drop the sails, and just take a break if things get a little hairy. In an airplane, that is not an option. I think it is reasonable to sail a boat before you are a sailor, just like it's reasonable to be a pilot before you can REALLY fly an airplane. Making these activities sound impossible and unattainable, in my opinion, is just to stroke the ego of the small portion of these communities who really need to feel like they have accomplished something great. I'm not discounting the danger of either, but most of the folks who would engage in either are thinker enough to calculate the acceptable level of risk.

The common danger, and most difficult to master IMHO, is weather. I do believe that having a weather mentor or three is an excellent idea for those who value life. On a side note, I have a week scheduled with Patty Wagstaff next month, so we'll find out just how tough I am!

[sailingabe41ds]

You learn a lot when faced with difficult situations and it builds confidence. A few years back I was in my 36 Hunter...40+knot winds and 12-14 swells..and getting very dark. By the time I entered the harbor the sun had set...it was only 30 knot winds and 8 ft swells and I felt very confident. The day prior I never would have gone out with 30 knot winds and 8+ swells.

Abe