Steve & Linda Dashew retire

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by atmartin

It is sad how deep our cultural cynicism runs that all roads to equality must end in totalitarianism. This has been a contentious thread and I don't mean any offense, Dockhead. You're expressing a commonly held position, but it's one that gives me little hope for the future.

No offense whatsoever. Just because I don't see a way sure doesn't mean there isn't one.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by skipmac

There is another big impact on the planet to producing meat and dairy that I haven't seen mentioned here (but could have missed it). Due to the large amounts of land needed to raise cattle, millions of acres, much of it virgin rain forest is being clear cut to make the room for the cattle and to grow the feed they need. This doubles the impact since not only are you adding cows that contribute methane to the environment but you are losing the trees that absorb CO2.

I see more damage to rain forests from the demand for Palm Oil and mining than I see from beef production..
Look at one of the main producers.. Argentina.. maybe there was once a rain forest.. a million years ago but in recorded history its been Pampass grass.
Africa is another continent that is losing rain forest.. but not to beef.. its logging and clearance for strip mining..
Cattle do not thrive in rain forest country.. water buffalo yes.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I see more damage to rain forests from the demand for Palm Oil and mining than I see from beef production..
Look at one of the main producers.. Argentina.. maybe there was once a rain forest.. a million years ago but in recorded history its been Pampass grass.
Africa is another continent that is losing rain forest.. but not to beef.. its logging and clearance for strip mining..
Cattle do not thrive in rain forest country.. water buffalo yes.

91% of deforested land in Brazil is used for livestock. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_in_Brazil

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

91% of deforested land in Brazil is used for livestock. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_in_Brazil

And who are the companies named as prime motivators.. Cargill and Macdonalds.. how is the Wall Street Furures market for Soya these days..
Europe is also to blame I agree.including the UK which has jumped onto the fast food road to early death with enthusiasim.. go to any Mall and the queue for Bigmacs is 5 times longer than the healthier options.. and the bellies get bigger and lives shorter..
So maybe its not all bad.. big bellies and small brains are famous in Darwinism.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I see more damage to rain forests from the demand for Palm Oil and mining than I see from beef production..
Look at one of the main producers.. Argentina.. maybe there was once a rain forest.. a million years ago but in recorded history its been Pampass grass.
Africa is another continent that is losing rain forest.. but not to beef.. its logging and clearance for strip mining..
Cattle do not thrive in rain forest country.. water buffalo yes.

This is also a devastating issue in Malaysia, you drive for hours and see nothing but palm oil trees. Ive seen elephants cross a river in front of me in Borneo i doubt you will in twenty years at the rate the jungle is getting cleared.

[boatman61]

I should add..
The EU is fueling the Brazil problem with its CAP.. it pays farmers and livestock producers not to use their land..
If it did not do this Brazil would not have a market.. basically the situation there is an echo of the Great American Dustbowl.. short term political strategy to satisfy the people with little thought to environmental and long term sustainability.. cant feed or employ em.. give them some land..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And who are the companies named as prime motivators.. Cargill and Macdonalds.. how is the Wall Street Furures market for Soya these days..
Europe is also to blame I agree.including the UK which has jumped onto the fast food road to early death with enthusiasim.. go to any Mall and the queue for Bigmacs is 5 times longer than the healthier options.. and the bellies get bigger and lives shorter..
So maybe its not all bad.. big bellies and small brains are famous in Darwinism.

Sure, but "blame" is not the right way to approach it. Understanding is.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Sure, but "blame" is not the right way to approach it. Understanding is.

Oh I understand it.. its called Greed.. from the CEO right down to the fat twat in MacDonalds
Or is it that other mantra.. Growth.
Another unsustainable ambition..
Sooner or later somethings got to give.. but.. if you can afford the survival dome.. FYJIFP..

[john61ct]

Wow, talk about thread drift!

Really wastes the time of those who want to read about the actual topic

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow, talk about thread drift!

Really wastes the time of those who want to read about the actual topic

Bit late are you not John..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Wow, talk about thread drift!

Really wastes the time of those who want to read about the actual topic

I think many and probably all of us will be very pleased if you want to wrench us back on topic, John.

I've never before gotten involved in any of these environmental discussions, which are usually pointless, but I plead extreme provocation

[boatman61]

This is for John..
Have not sailed on one but.. I have been on one of Dashews sailboats..
For me.. at its price.. it was basic in the extreme and held zero appeal whatsoever.. but the owners were really nice folk.. even if he does ******** about how much Tanqueray of his I drank.. it was brandy.

[denverd0n]

I really don't want to get back on the environmental stuff, but...

I always find the methane argument, concerning cattle, to be pretty funny. I mean, supposedly, 300 years ago, the Great Plains of North America were over-run with buffalo, elk, deer, and antelope. Something like 30 million buffalo, and a little less than that number of each of the others, too. So, we're talking about somewhere around 100 million ungulates roaming around then, that aren't there any more. Or, at least, only a piddling few remain in comparison. And, what? None of them ever farted? Really?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Polux

That tankage would be enough for a diesel car to make 240 000 km.... and the correspondent pollution. Imagine if all that crossed the Atlantic cruising used motor boats!

And a single tug burns 7000 litres of diesel a day
A containership burns 225,000 litres a day
And you are concerned about something that sips fuel.

Now tell me again how much fossil fuel was burnt making all the resins, plastics, aluminium , engines etc etc on your boat while I get some stones to throw at your glass house.

Oh and round up some carrier pigeons to return the computer you are posting on.
It was made from fossil fuels and came over on that 225,000 litre a day ship.
Shame on you.

[rgleason]

ok Boatman61 I can add to that list:
Change our dependence on and belief in "Growth" as an economic model, to "Sustainability".
Change our population growth to "no growth" or even negative. (the big bear in the room no one wants to talk about)
Think about the planet as if you were planning a long voyage and wanted to be alive at the end of it.