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Colin A · 15-03-2018, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

What the hell is a sailing career in what regards cruising?

Someone chose to cruise on a sailing boat or on a motor boat.

It has nothing to do with a carer and many chose to cruise on a sailboat way past the age the Dashews have now and they have chosen to pass to motorboat cruising long ago.

I do agree with bigmarv point of view when he says that "leisure boats to cross oceans powered solely by fossil fuels" is something that is not right and should not be considered.

Well sailing career would be a lifetime of cruising and designing and promoting the Sundeers. In addition they wrote many books and taught courses on sailing. I think a career in sailing is an good description.

The power boat thing came from the amount of time they found they motored vs sailed they thought it just made more sense to increase the living spaces and lose the sails.

**Pete7** · 15-03-2018, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

I do agree with bigmarv point of view when he says that "leisure boats to cross oceans powered solely by fossil fuels" is something that is not right and should not be considered.

Why ever not, wasn't it Steve who suggested that the overall cost of a mobo and a yacht weren't that dissimilar for long distance cruising.

Pete

Polux · 15-03-2018, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcmm

I thought they "retired" in the 90's. they've been radio silent for decades! I'd have to say that the most popular "cruising couple" in North America are the Shards, they've built quite the media empire around cruising!! and they've been at it for nearly 30 years now!

Very nice people. I meet them at Dusseldof in January and I was surprised because they knew me from my blog that they follow almost since the beginning.

They were there showing his new boat, a true beauty, a Discovery 48 that is a Southerly 48 made by Discovery (they bought Southerly). I was impressed with them and their new sailboat.

The interior:
https://www.facebook.com/DistantShor...5911778342209/
.

Polux · 15-03-2018, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Why ever not, wasn't it Steve who suggested that the overall cost of a mobo and a yacht weren't that dissimilar for long distance cruising.

Pete

Pete, that was not to do with costs but with pollution, a not necessary one since it has to do with pleasure cruising.

As you know today cars and motorcycles are heavily taxed in what regards emissions and even so they have to be limited ones. European countries preview, on account of pollution, to forbid the sell of new modeles with fossil combustibles in just a bit more than a decade.

What sense it makes to cross Oceans or to circumnavigate on a pleasure vessel using fossil combustibles? Only on a Transat how much diesel would be needed? I don't know but their boat had a tankage of 12 000l and I guess that it is enough.

That tankage would be enough for a diesel car to make 240 000 km.... and the correspondent pollution. Imagine if all that crossed the Atlantic cruising used motor boats!

Polux · 15-03-2018, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin A

....
The power boat thing came from the amount of time they found they motored vs sailed they thought it just made more sense to increase the living spaces and lose the sails.

And I thought that they had efficient sailboats! I sail 80% of the time while cruising.

Polux · 15-03-2018, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franziska

No need to bark.

..

Do you bark? I don't do that.

Stu Jackson · 15-03-2018, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

That tankage would be enough for a diesel car to make 240 000 km.... and the correspondent pollution. Imagine if all that crossed the Atlantic cruising used motor boats!

yeah, they probably said that when the Clipper ships gave way to, gasp!, steamboats and then fossil fueled freighters and tanker and containerships.

:b iggrin:

seandepagnier · 15-03-2018, 09:07

This guy is rich enough, he could hire someone to raise his sails!

I recall the calculations he used did not consider the cost of the engine, and space it wastes in the boat. But he considers the sails, and rigging to be extra and in the way! I never had an engine wasting space and stinking up my boat.

He uses the cost of brand new custom sails from expensive sail loft in USA or europe, and quote of professional rigger, but fails to consider that fuel in foreign ports is often dirty, expensive, not available in sufficient quantities, or waste a lot of time to obtain. Then there are issues with failing engine parts.

The cost comparison is not even close. I only saw 2 powerboats out of few hundred sailboats who crossed indian ocean, and the people on those boats were rich, and misinformed.

I know people who were forced to bribe the police $50 because they were "so rich" for buying 50 gallons of fuel all at once. Normal people can't do that; fuel is sold by the liter in coke bottles there. The officials waved my fees, and gave me lunch instead for not having engine.

Now what is cheaper?

Colin A · 15-03-2018, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

This guy is rich enough, he could hire someone to raise his sails!

I recall the calculations he used did not consider the cost of the engine, and space it wastes in the boat. But he considers the sails, and rigging to be extra and in the way! I never had an engine wasting space and stinking up my boat.

He uses the cost of brand new custom sails from expensive sail loft in USA or europe, and quote of professional rigger, but fails to consider that fuel in foreign ports is often dirty, expensive, not available in sufficient quantities, or waste a lot of time to obtain. Then there are issues with failing engine parts.

Rigging with galvanized wire (which also has longest life) is a fraction the cost of engine. Using old sails will give you cheaper than 10,000 miles per gallon! The cost comparison is not even close.

I know people who were forced to bribe the police $50 because they were "so rich" for buying 50 gallons of fuel all at once. Normal people can't do that; fuel is sold by the liter in coke bottles there. The officials waved my fees, and gave me lunch instead for not having engine.

Now what is cheaper?

It was cheaper then the way he sailed. They tended to be very system happy and willing to adopt new tech and materials as they went along. I have little doubt his costs were high. I had a customer with a Swan some years ago and he spent 40k on sails every 5-6 years (mostly cruising some racing). With that kind of spend a diesel may not be so pricey.

Now as to how most people cruise yeah sailing is cheaper.

Wckoek · 15-03-2018, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

This guy is rich enough, he could hire someone to raise his sails!

I recall the calculations he used did not consider the cost of the engine, and space it wastes in the boat. But he considers the sails, and rigging to be extra and in the way! I never had an engine wasting space and stinking up my boat.

He uses the cost of brand new custom sails from expensive sail loft in USA or europe, and quote of professional rigger, but fails to consider that fuel in foreign ports is often dirty, expensive, not available in sufficient quantities, or waste a lot of time to obtain. Then there are issues with failing engine parts.

The cost comparison is not even close. I only saw 2 powerboats out of few hundred sailboats who crossed indian ocean, and the people on those boats were rich, and misinformed.

I know people who were forced to bribe the police $50 because they were "so rich" for buying 50 gallons of fuel all at once. Normal people can't do that; fuel is sold by the liter in coke bottles there. The officials waved my fees, and gave me lunch instead for not having engine.

Now what is cheaper?

I worked out that under 20 tonnes, say 16-18 tonnes, a displacement powerboat will be cheaper than sailboat unless you sail more than 5,000 nautical miles per year, I based this calculation on cheap sails from China and Thailand not accounting for lines, mast and other consumable and fuel that sailboat also uses, even in countries where fuel are more expensive that can be 3,000 nautical miles per year or so to break the point, in my country where fuel cost $2 per gallion, it needs about 8,000 miles per year to better fuel.
Also fuel cost is more manageable, when fuel are expensive you can just cruise or use it less, but you still have to fork out thousands for sail one shot regardless when it has to be replaced.

Blue Stocking · 15-03-2018, 09:35

I've met the Hiscocks, the Mulvilles, Beebe, Fossey, and many other famous sailors over 5 decades +. All really just ordinary folk to me. We choose to make, or un-make them, in our own minds.

Bigmarv · 15-03-2018, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

And I thought that they had efficient sailboats! I sail 80% of the time while cruising.

They were consummate sales people and it seemed to convince lots of Americans. But long and thin was not an idea they invented, and the design weaknesses of their sailing boats were there to see if you looked - draggy stern, slow in the light, turds upwind.

Crossing oceans burning many tonnes of diesel isn't a human right. If somebody is too frail to pull up a sail, they can sit at home. If they think there's something noble in burning 20 tonnes of diesel to get a photo of their ugly launch beside a disappearing glacier then they deserve to get called out.

If you look at their designs objectively rather than through their own sales patter, it's hard to see much that's innovative or tasteful.