Shoestring Sailors (Cruising on $500 per month - part II)

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by downunder

Perhaps a Sustainable Dumpster Diving thread Would be in order.

I was getting fancy cheese, and sundried tomatoes (in jars) chocolate bars etc... Eating from a dumpster is not sustainable. I never thought it was. I was only taking advantage of a situation where perfectly good food would otherwise go to waste, and I would have to get my food elsewhere at the expense of more resources. I would prefer a world where this situation does not exist.

In many places, all the food is grown without using fuel, without machines, and the only tool is the bush knife. The food is the best quality in the world due because no chemicals are used, and because of the environment around the plants increases the nutritional value. When I visited the gardens on many islands, I could literally see more than 20 different types of food growing all around me, and they never plant two species of the same plant next to each other. There was an abundance of food grown with minimal effort.

I also continue to grow food on my boat which supplements my consumption. The notion of eating only raw fish is ridiculous. I cook all the time using only driftwood very efficiently and at the rate, everyone too can do this. Solar ovens also have huge potential. When I was in san francisco, I could use a wind generator to cook food in the winter and solar panels in the summer and there was always an abundance of power for electric cooking.

Using 10 gallons of fuel per month is really rather selfish and unreasonable. Why not at least directly use none, even if you don't know how to survive without indirectly causing some. Obviously you can grow food without fuel, etc.. people have for a long time. Plowing fields is not a sustainable or efficient way to grow food. Grow a garden. Don't buy or eat meat (unless you hunt/fish). This will at least minimize the rate of change of what is coming, and give time for some of the millions of species to adapt rather than go extinct (most notably the fungi and microbes which recycle nutrients) to the changes, so that there is more hope for future generations, and our life support system on this planet is not as badly broken as it otherwise would be. Each of us makes a difference as you might just save one species that is key to the future. We risk plunging into a dark age of very primitive life forms of which may not include humans.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I would prefer a world where this situation does not exist.

In many places, all the food is grown without using fuel, without machines, and the only tool is the bush knife. The food is the best quality in the world due because no chemicals are used, and because of the environment around the plants increases the nutritional value. When I visited the gardens on many islands, I could literally see more than 20 different types of food growing all around me, and they never plant two species of the same plant next to each other. There was an abundance of food grown with minimal effort.

I also continue to grow food on my boat which supplements my consumption. The notion of eating only raw fish is ridiculous. I cook all the time using only driftwood very efficiently and at the rate, everyone too can do this. Solar ovens also have huge potential. When I was in san francisco, I could use a wind generator to cook food in the winter and solar panels in the summer and there was always an abundance of power for electric cooking.

Using 10 gallons of fuel per month is really rather selfish and unreasonable. Plowing fields is not a sustainable or efficient way to grow food. Grow a garden. Don't buy or eat meat (unless you hunt/fish). This will at least minimize the rate of change of what is coming, and give time for some of the millions of species to adapt rather than go extinct (most notably the fungi and microbes which recycle nutrients) to the changes, so that there is more hope for future generations, and our life support system on this planet is not as badly broken as it otherwise would be. Each of us makes a difference as you might just save one species that is key to the future. We risk plunging into a dark age of very primitive life forms of which may not include humans.

You have postulated a theory based on some very apparent one sided and personal attitudes.

Firstly, Deal with realities and not with what you would prefer. THIS IS THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN and not the one one you prefer.

The ideas you present for ideal farming are your own. Whilst I see benefits for personal gardens, Im also aware that space/greed/medical crap/hostile landscapes has created a world where it is impossible for all individuals to do this.

You advocate solar panels and wind generators. Do you KNOW how much energy/plastic/metal/silica is consumed in making these?

For every one of us that returns to a life that makes it intrinisically harder to do things, giving up on modern advancements, THREE people fill our shoes and have the advantages therin.

I too have struggled over thoughts of conservation. However it would mean giving up EVERYTHING by EVERYONE to make any difference. You could not communicate with us via computer and internet because of the cost to the environment in manufacturing the components. Let us not even mention the disruption to the fragile eco system by the trillions of high powered radio signals.

There are far more present and real dangers. Living in a country with an unyielding religious system which dictates and controls and makes living its own self destructive nightmare.

Those in power will determine the fate of the pollution levels. As long as there is money in it, NOTHING will change. We could have replaced the petrol engine years ago with pollution free energy..water or electric. All that happens was that inventions were bought up and hidden away or the inventors got killed 'accidentally'.

Sadly, statistically, YOu dont make a difference. The only positive in the whole crappy mess we live in is to your conscience.

Most of us want different. This is what we got.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by weavis

...

Those in power will determine the fate of the pollution levels. As long as there is money in it, NOTHING will change. We could have replaced the petrol engine years ago with pollution free energy..water or electric. All that happens was that inventions were bought up and hidden away or the inventors got killed 'accidentally'.

Most of us want different. This is what we got.

First of all, I thank you for some good points. I do believe everyone can and should have a garden though, and this is certainly possible.

This seems to be going back to the reasoning that if one person does something that causes a little pollution, then it's ok for them to cause as much pollution as they want. It seems to be a commonly repeated argument and is ridiculous.

And fat people come up with all kinds of excuses for why they are fat besides the simple reason: they eat too much.

Blame it on someone else, make up excuses for why it's ok to do something that is harmful to others etc... this is the same as no excuse at all. The fact is, there is no good reason for why anyone should be using a diesel engine.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

First of all, I thank you for some good points. I do believe everyone can and should have a garden though, and this is certainly possible.

The fact is, there is no good reason for why anyone should be using a diesel engine.

LOL

there doesnt have to be a good reason.

Everyone does.

You can choose to use one or not.

For those that do, they make a living whilst you are lamenting the demise of the world because of their using a diesel engine and if I may say so, hypocritally living off their wasted excess of food and equipment that you pick up for nothing.

this is the real world right or wrong. EVERYTHING has to change or nothing changes........ just make your choice and stick to it but I would prefer that you dont judge individuals for doing what they have to do in order to survive and feed their families. If a guy or his wife have to travel 30 miles to get to a low paid job because that is all there is.... he or she is not going to walk it or ride a donkey.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

And fat people come up with all kinds of excuses for why they are fat besides the simple reason: they eat too much.

Hmm
Not always.

The allowance of chemicals and forced food manufacture processes contribute a lot. This needs to change. It hasnt and it wont. Too much money and demand for it to ever change. Too many lies about the 'safety' of the food.

Good quality food has been made expensive to purchase. Most people do not have time for gardens or cant afford them. They are too busy working 70 hours a week to stop and adjust their lives.

Not everyone can do what you did. If it wasnt for them working their butts off, you would not have the luxury of criticizing them from the comfort of your opt out position but grateful for their left overs.....

[David_Old_Jersey]

Whilst I have no problem with this thread wandering off topic (imo makes it more interesting ) .........nonetheless I will point out that plenty of other threads for making value judgements on the lifestyles of others .

[boatman61]

+A1
True.. lets stick to idea's.. that's what its supposed to be about.. how each individual gets by on the minimum..

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

+A1
True.. lets stick to idea's.. that's what its supposed to be about.. how each individual gets by on the minimum..

er

Does this mean I can keep my diesel?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by weavis

er

Does this mean I can keep my diesel?

Sure.. as long as you promise to run your 'Flash Cat' at $500/mth all in.. tho' the $5000/mth is more appropriate for Condomarans..

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sure.. as long as you promise to run your 'Flash Cat' at $500/mth all in.. tho' the $5000/mth is more appropriate for Condomarans..

I priced it up again recently.
Marina, insurance and maintenance .......... I can do for about 424 Euros a month.
If I sail or motor........ it buggers with the figures.

Fancy that!

.......$500 a month for europeans is a touch tight. Free moorings are not plentiful.....

This was my last free one...

[Blue Crab]

It is regrettable that the "original" thread postulated the $500 sum rather than a more realistic minimal expense. Lots of tiresome posts have been about money rather than the paucity thereof.

Too many well-heeled, and even un-heeled bigbuck multihull sailors can't resist critical posting in the low budget threads. Internet noblesse oblige one supposes. This doesn't happen in real life shootin' the **** around the bar where genuine high dollar folks try to fit in, in my experience, rather than dress to impress, while regaling "fellow" cruisers with tales of electronic redundancies and whatnot.

The change to "shoestring" was very positive altho I thought the briefly proffered "flip flop sailors" had merit as well.

[boatman61]

One of the things that makes me smile is when folk bemoan the cost of Med sailing.. when I went through Greece a few years (2005) back the only thing I paid for was the Corinth Canal... everywhere else I went was free.. from tied up alongside in Kharis/Marmaris/etc.. anchorage and water was free... yet folk always complain about the cost of marina's...
Guess that's the price of life in a sheep pen..

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Sure.. as long as you promise to run your 'Flash Cat' at $500/mth all in.. tho' the $5000/mth is more appropriate for Condomarans..

Ha!
for a sub 34 footer I hope not!

Seriously........ I have worked out my boating budget at

• 15K Euros a year.
• $20K.

At this price it includes marina, insurance, electric, water, fuel, clothes, food and drink and expenses. Major issues would have to factored on top of this.

I consider this as close as I can get to being reasonable for where I want to be.

For 1250 EUR a month or $1660, its a good life but not extravagant. Spain is cheap if you work it properly.

can I do it cheaper? YES........ but I dont need to.

I can guarantee most others in a marina will spend 5 or 6 times this and think it cheap.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by weavis

...

For 1250 EUR a month or $1660, its a good life but not extravagant. Spain is cheap if you work it properly.

can I do it cheaper? YES........ but I dont need to.

I can guarantee most others in a marina will spend 5 or 6 times this and think it cheap.

Work is the curse of the cruising class or something like that.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Work is the curse of the cruising class or something like that.

I just think its great that us low medium earners can afford this lifestyle. I pay a whole friggin' lot more than this already to live on land.......a WHOLE bleedin' lot more..... it will be a step in the right direction for me.

Im not sure if I have the tenacity to do what others have done and make it a lifestyle choice if money was super restricted. Im not vested in any one mode of living. Time will tell.