HELP! Me Learn a New Language. Please. Please, please

[DeepFrz]

Has anyone else here tried "Learn French by Podcast"? I find it helpful to have the text as well as explanations of the verbs, etc. while listening to the audio. But then my hearing isn't very acute.

I did one course at Alliance Francaise but at the time couldn't afford to continue. I didn't do very well but most of the other class mates seemed to do much better.

[barnakiel]

Here, Alliance Française is a very dear undertaking. I would rather actually go straight for a Fiancé/-e Française. Here the AF asks in excess of USD 500 per a 6 mths course. Maybe they are not that expensive in the US.

A Spanish or French 8 mths course, from a public school for local or resident people here is roughly USD100 per course. Classes 2x a week, 2hrs each class.

In the Spanish course, it normally takes 6 months to take you off the ground and past 2 years, you are basically educated enough to go ahead with self study. Most people continue though due to the formed friendship and the fun in the classroom.

In the French course, most level 2 students are still dumb. Some are beginning to take off. many students drop out. I think a bit because of the difficulty but maybe also a bit because we are in Spain not in France. The incentive is less.

Cheers,
b.

[TrentePieds]

Barnakiel:

As I said - it depends on how hard you are willing to work :-)!

No-one can TEACH you a furren language. If you need one, the only way to get it is to LEARN it. That all happens within your own head. Forget the grammar. Just do PATTERN DRILLS. e.g "the green sweater he wears is {made from wool}", "the green sweater he wears [was his fathers]; "the green sweater he wears [is actually blue]" and on and on and on.

This commits the grammar to your memory without your even feeling it. Just pick up the (correct) phrase from any written material, then play with it: "le pull-over vert il s'use [insert the clauses here one after the other till you are blue in the face :-)]"

Get a little voice recorder if you haven't got one on your phone. speak these "pattern drills" into the machine, and play them back to yourself paying attention to pronunciation. Make necessary corrections and do it again till you are blue in the face. You get going by writing out a phrase you would use frequently in talking to people: "Good afternoon, Constable - I'm totally lost! Could you tell me how to get to the [Eiffel Tower], please?" "Good afternoon, Madame, could you tell me how to get to [the Louvre], please?" And so on till you are blue in the face. It's a job. Dedicate eight hours a day to it, just as if you were paid to do it. You will be - in the future :-)

In three months, you'd have it beat. I know whereof I speak. I told you I came here with four - 4 - words of English to my name. Six months later my boss was pleased enuff with my command of this weird lingo that he used my letters as models for other - native born - employees to use. But YOU gotta do the work. NOBODY can teach you another language. But YOU can learn it.

Bonne chance :-)!

TP

[Locutus]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Memrise yet.
www.memrise.com

This is a lot like Duolingo, except that anyone can create and add a course to the site. Consequently there is vast content compared to Duolingo.

I started learning Japanese about three months ago. I've found Memrise to be indispensable for learning the kana and the kanji, and for building vocabulary.

Another good free tool is Anki. You can create your own decks or download ready decks from the web. It's less user-friendly than Memrise though.

Both of these tools, like Duolingo, are spaced repetition systems, where the time between reviews lengthens as you learn the material better.

I'm also using Pimsleur (free from the public library) and Rocket Japanese. Both of these seem to focus on touristy language, at least in the earlier lessons where I currently find myself. Pimsleur's forte is the challenge it provides to respond in a limited time, just like a real conversation.

Rocket Languages ($99 per level and there are three levels) take Pimlsleur's 20th Century ideas into the 21sth century and then applies heavy doses of steroids. Rocket is an online interactive experience with everything Pimsleur has plus lots more. One of its distinguishing features is its voice recognition and feedback. It actually tests your pronunciation and provides feedback on where it falls short. You can download a free trial from their website. Finally, once you've paid for a course, you are a member in that language for life. There are no monthly fees. French and Spanish would be considered two separate courses, each with their own initial fees.

[Yowieboy]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I would add, never think that you are too old to learn a new language. You are never too old, until you BELIEVE that you are tool old! I started learning Spanish when I was 58 and while it has not been easy I have gotten to be pretty passable at it. Certainly better than el turista normal.

At 58, I would have totally agreed with the above. Now, at age 67, I'm not so sure anymore. I do speak French, and when I headed for Nicaragua some 18 months ago, all my friends told me, "since you know French, you'll pick up Spanish in no time..." Well, I'm picking it up in no time, but I lose it in even less time! My vocabulary grows a little, shrinks a little, grows a little more, and I often look up words or have things explained to me not once but two, three, even four times... Compared to my other foreign languages (which I acquired while much younger) the process seems way more laborious. The fact that I am in the country but not fully immersed in Spanish on a daily basis doesn't help either (for work reasons, I use Japanese, my "second best language" more extensively than Spanish). Okay, rant over...

To add at least a little information to the discussion, I don't think this site has been mentioned so far:

https://www.memrise.com/

Lots of free courses, of varying quality and for different levels, but especially for vocabulary training, I found the app quite useful.

[rognvald]

"Gender is a perfect example of this. If you go into a bar and say "quiero un cerveza." Okay, you got the gender wrong. It should be "una cerveza." But the bartender is going to understand what you want, he's not going to get angry with you, or anything like that, he's just going to serve you a beer and maybe as he hands it to you say, "una cerveza, mi amigo." DenverdOn

Don,
If you say "Quiero una cerveza" he is going to think you rather rude since you are demanding a beer rather than asking for a beer. The proper way to order would be "Quisiera (or Me gustaria) una cerveza, por favor"-- I would like a beer, please. This is called the past subjunctive tense in Spanish, in the former, and the conditional tense, in the later example, and usually is only learned when conversing with a native speaker--another reason to forget the tapes and get a tutor. However, my experience with my Spanish speaking friends is that they are very forgiving to those who attempt to speak with them in their language. Buena suerte y navegar con seguridad. Capitan Rognvald

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

GREAT TIPS Guys, Thanks! And yes, once you get to say about the 2nd grade level in any language, the generally, folks are more than happy to help you well express yourself (properly) if you've at all a good attitude.

I hadn't thought of hiring a translator for important things, or travel, but it's an interesting idea. And one that's commonly one in business. So it's worth considering for sure. Anyone have some wise thoughts on how to go about it (other than Google)?

I guess I know what I'll be studying now on those nights when sleep is tough to come by. What with all of these resource options.

Pourquoi pas tout le monde ne parle-t-il en Français ou en Espagnol? Nous devons rendre cela plus difficile pour lui

[JPA Cate]

We could, indeed, but where oh where will we get the graves, agues, cedilles and circonflexes?

I once had to write a letter while we were in New Caledonia, in French, and eventually had to apologize profusely, en francais, for my stupid computer which didn't have them.

Ann

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Pourquoi pas tout le monde ne parle-t-il en Français ou en Espagnol? Nous devons rendre cela plus difficile pour lui

Porque la mayoría de los americanos no saben español o francés.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

We could, indeed, but where oh where will we get the graves, agues, cedilles and circonflexes?

I once had to write a letter while we were in New Caledonia, in French, and eventually had to apologize profusely, en francais, for my stupid computer which didn't have them.

Ann

There is a way but it's a bit awkward. Find a website in the appropriate language, cut and past all the special characters into a document or email. Then copy and paste them one at a time into the doc you're writing. I've done it and if not too many tildes, umlauts and such needed it isn't awfully slow.

I have read that there are multi key sequences that can call special and foreign characters directly from the keyboard but I've had limited success with that technique.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Porque la mayoría de los americanos no saben español o francés.

Sí, pero Google Translate es tan fácil en estos días ...

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by skipmac

There is a way but it's a bit awkward. Find a website in the appropriate language, cut and past all the special characters into a document or email. Then copy and paste them one at a time into the doc you're writing. I've done it and if not too many tildes, umlauts and such needed it isn't awfully slow.

I have read that there are multi key sequences that can call special and foreign characters directly from the keyboard but I've had limited success with that technique.

My mother has this code list taped to her desk so she can write appropriately in French: American-French Genealogical Society: French Accents, which is still a PITA, but she's retired so has plenty of time.

(EDIT....Well, I just tried it, too, and it doesn't work for me either. I'll have to find out what code she uses.)

[Quebramar]

French being my mother tongue, I would recommend starting with Spanish, which is far less complex. French grammatical exceptions are a deterrent to motivational learning to many. I learnt a bit of Spanish after having learnt Portuguese through immersion, found it quite easy to understand the general meaning, for words and grammar were very close. Once Spanish is ok, French will look much closer to you than it does today.
One of my tricks is to try and listen/understand from general context to individual expressions and words, and that is much easier with Spanish.
French ain't that easy, my youngest had spent almost 18 years of total immersion and -thank internet- is still missing some refinements to say the least.
If perfection is not your aim, as I would imagine, immersion is the best way if you dare to speak all the time whatever it takes. It is the thinking in the foreign language that helps makes the switch. Hence the need to be 100% into it.
Voilà pour aujourd'hui [emoji4]

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

We could, indeed, but where oh where will we get the graves, agues, cedilles and circonflexes? ...

In Windows: To input capital French C cedilla Ç (Shift+RightAlt+<), hold down the Shift key, then the RightAlt key, then the < key. Release all three keys, and the letter will appear.
Etc ➥ Symbol Codes | International Keyboard Accent Codes (Windows)

[Dockhead]

People all learn differently, so I'm not sure anyone can really give you useful advice on this.

For whatever little it may be worth, when I learn a new language, I don't bother with courses, tapes, pod casts, miracle methods, etc. I just dive in myself, starting with the pronouns and prepositions, then memorize the declension tables, memorize the first 1000 words (that's the threshold to functionality), then skim through a "grammar in review" book or some such. That can be done in a few weeks if you apply yourself, and you shouldn't spend more time than that, because at a slower pace you will be forgetting as fast as you learn. Then I start reading or talking depending on whether I'm in the country or not. Talk and/or read A LOT. Keep a notebook and write down words I don't know, only after the third time I hear them and don't know them. Read A LOT. Talk without being shy, and don't swallow the word endings you're not sure about -- on the contrary, EMPHASIZE the endings you're not sure about, and watch people's faces to see whether they wince or not. You'll learn a lot like that. Make a literate friend who is not shy or lazy to correct your mistakes. Did I say, READ A LOT? Read at least a book a week in your new language; OK if it's crappy detective novels or even translations of things you've already read. With Western European languages this works well; for a more complicated language like Russian or Sanskrit or Ancient Greek -- not so well. Those languages require a more serious approach and years of effort.

P.S. Don't believe it when people tell you Spanish is easy. It's easy to speak bastardized, illiterate, ignorant gringo Spanish the way many Americans speak it, but to speak it well is not actually less hard than speaking good French. One problem is irregular verbs . . .