HELP! Me Learn a New Language. Please. Please, please

[buzzstar]

I have been seeing ads for a program called, I believe, Babel. Nothing to add in the way of personal knowledge about the product.

[TrentePieds]

Every so often someone - for a joke I'm sure - will send me something that used to be perfectly good English that he has ground through "Babel" into what purports to be Danish or German. It can take a whole hour or more to "edit" a single page of Babel-output into something that resembles the target language to the point that it's even understandable. Can't be bothered to try it from Danish or German to English. I'm sure it'd be just as rubbishy :-)!

TP

[toddster8]

Total immersion may be the only way. After trying to cram all the "quick" methods into my schedule before a deployment, I found that I could barely get by in stores and restaurants. Actually, I had some really good quality conversations with three-year olds. We had about the same vocabulary and grasp of grammar. After a month, I could pretty much get by without a chaperone.

Several European friends told me that they learned by getting summer jobs as waiters in different countries, during college. That recalls a lunch on a sunny patio in Portugal, during which, I'm pretty sure the waiter spoke a different language, fluently, at each table. Amazing.

In the late 70's, my college was playing catch-up on technology, so my "foreign language" requirement was fulfilled by learning "Pascal." Which was obsolete by the time I graduated.

[toddster8]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Every so often someone - for a joke I'm sure - will send me something that used to be perfectly good English that he has ground through "Babel" into what purports to be Danish or German. It can take a whole hour or more to "edit" a single page of Babel-output into something that resembles the target language to the point that it's even understandable. Can't be bothered to try it from Danish or German to English. I'm sure it'd be just as rubbishy :-)!

TP

I was recently trying to work with a translated Russian chemistry paper. It was pretty rough. It took me a week to realize that when it said "brain column," they meant "concentrator column."

[JPA Cate]

This is not nearly as up to date as what you can find via the internet, but for yachting vocabulary, there is Barbara Webb's Yachtsman's Eight Language Dictionary.c copywright 1983, published by Adlard Coles, Ltd, Granada Publishing, London, Toronto Sydney, New York. It's small enough to go into your daypack easily. It is old fashioned, though, it was dated when we got ours, but may have been updated.

With Spanish & French, learn the irregular verbs first. All the rest are easy to work out from a first language-new language dictionary. I think learning to comprehend the new language when spoken to you is the hardest part of learning it. Learning reading comprehension is easier. It will be easier to learn if you have someone to chat with about things of interest to both of you, and on a regular schedule. You need to have structured, regular time. When you start dreaming in the language, you have the basics down pretty well.

Speedy learning to you, mate..

Ann

[TeddyDiver]

The very basics of spain is easy to learn. My first trip to Cuba I started with a pocket dictionary looking every word I needed, easy way to get started with chicas btw.. Anyway after a couple of weeks could conversate with simple sentences without peeking words. But to get fluent in spanish, far from it still allmost two decades later. Much more complicated language than english, really needs to learn the grammar to get fluent.
French is more straight forward IMO, but I'm still far from having any conversation just enough for shopping and such..

[toddster8]

As friends also pointed out - in a book store, look at the same book in Spanish and English translations. The Spanish book is twice as thick. It takes twice as many words to say the same thing...

[denverd0n]

TrentePieds point is really good. Just start talking, and let people correct you. I think a lot of people are afraid to look foolish, afraid to make mistakes, and afraid that if they do make a mistake people will get annoyed, think they are stupid, that sort of thing.

No. Not at all.

Think about it. You're walking down the street in Omaha one day, some guy comes up to you with a thick French accent and asks "Where find I good restaurant?"

Are you going to laugh at him? Get annoyed? Think he is stupid and should be ignored? No, of course not! You're going to be very happy to help him. You're not going to say anything like, "You don't say 'where find I' you idiot!" You're going to say something like "Where can you find a good restaurant? Well, there's Gorat's Steakhouse just about two blocks that way."

Guess what? Folks in other countries are going to be just as willing to help, and just as happy to correct you in a pleasant and friendly manner.

In the Michel Thomas CDs he describes this as a "net ball." Sure, you didn't make a good serve, but the ball got over the net -- you were understood -- and now you get help, and learn to do it better. If you serve up a statement and all you get is a blank stare, well that one didn't get over the net. Now you have to try something different.

Gender is a perfect example of this. If you go into a bar and say "quiero un cerveza." Okay, you got the gender wrong. It should be "una cerveza." But the bartender is going to understand what you want, he's not going to get angry with you, or anything like that, he's just going to serve you a beer and maybe as he hands it to you say, "una cerveza, mi amigo."

I would add, never think that you are too old to learn a new language. You are never too old, until you BELIEVE that you are tool old! I started learning Spanish when I was 58 and while it has not been easy I have gotten to be pretty passable at it. Certainly better than el turista normal.

[skipmac]

What works for me based on studying Spanish in HS and college and travel around the Americas and Europe, I learned more in a week speaking a language in the country than I did in a month studying the language from any other method: class, books, tapes, etc.

Speaking no French in a week in France I could ask directions, take the ReR and Metro, read the maps, read menus, etc. No I was not fluent, not even carry on a conversation but I learned a lot in a few days.

Had the same experience in Spanish speaking countries. Day to day requirements going to the store, taking taxis, etc I expanded my Spanish dramatically and better, what i learned stuck with me much more than reading the same stuff in a book.

Lacking the ability to spend time in a country to learn the language, hire a native speaker and spend all day speaking with them.

One negative, by the end of the day I was mentally exhausted and it was a great relief to break down and speak English with someone.

[indiana_ct]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

TrentePieds point is really good. Just start talking, and let people correct you. I think a lot of people are afraid to look foolish, afraid to make mistakes, and afraid that if they do make a mistake people will get annoyed, think they are stupid, that sort of thing.

No. Not at all.

Think about it. You're walking down the street in Omaha one day, some guy comes up to you with a thick French accent and asks "Where find I good restaurant?"

Are you going to laugh at him? Get annoyed? Think he is stupid and should be ignored? No, of course not! You're going to be very happy to help him. You're not going to say anything like, "You don't say 'where find I' you idiot!" You're going to say something like "Where can you find a good restaurant? Well, there's Gorat's Steakhouse just about two blocks that way."

Guess what? Folks in other countries are going to be just as willing to help, and just as happy to correct you in a pleasant and friendly manner.

In the Michel Thomas CDs he describes this as a "net ball." Sure, you didn't make a good serve, but the ball got over the net -- you were understood -- and now you get help, and learn to do it better. If you serve up a statement and all you get is a blank stare, well that one didn't get over the net. Now you have to try something different.

Gender is a perfect example of this. If you go into a bar and say "quiero un cerveza." Okay, you got the gender wrong. It should be "una cerveza." But the bartender is going to understand what you want, he's not going to get angry with you, or anything like that, he's just going to serve you a beer and maybe as he hands it to you say, "una cerveza, mi amigo."

I would add, never think that you are too old to learn a new language. You are never too old, until you BELIEVE that you are tool old! I started learning Spanish when I was 58 and while it has not been easy I have gotten to be pretty passable at it. Certainly better than el turista normal.

You haven't spent much time in France, then [emoji3][emoji12], nor in Hong Kong where people get irritated if you try to speak Cantonese?

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by indiana_ct

You haven't spent much time in France, then...

You obviously haven't a clue where I have spent time. I have, in fact, spent quite a lot of time in France. I have always found the people to be extremely polite, friendly, and helpful. Contrary to the stereotypes that a lot of people -- at least, a lot of Americans -- seem to hold.

You do, of course, have to be aware of, and sensitive to, the cultural differences. For example, greeting someone with bon jour is important in French-speaking territories.

Walk into a McDonalds in America, go up to the counter, and say "Big Mac and fries, please" and -- because you said "please" -- everyone will think you are very polite. Do the same thing in France and -- because you did not start by saying hello -- everyone will think you are very rude. So, one important rule for Americans visiting France is, always start with bon jour.

But, be a little sensitive to such cultural differences, make an effort NOT to be a stereotypical "Ugly American," and I am sure that -- just like I always have -- you will find the French to be wonderfully friendly people, almost always willing to go out of their way to help.

Never having visited China, I will have to leave that to others to comment upon.

[oslokid]

It took me 20 years of immersion in the US to become fluent (no accent) in English. My native language is Norwegian.
I have completed all 25 levels of Duolingo English-Spanish (30,000 translated sentences) and have attained according to them 56% fluency in Spanish. Duolingo for the phone is easier than Duolingo in your browser. Either way highly recommended. You can also try Spanish-English (reverse tree).
If you want to speak with native speakers who want to practice your language try Speaky at www.speaky.com. The chat allows you to correct each other. No cost and no ads.

[indiana_ct]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

You obviously haven't a clue where I have spent time. I have, in fact, spent quite a lot of time in France. I have always found the people to be extremely polite, friendly, and helpful. Contrary to the stereotypes that a lot of people -- at least, a lot of Americans -- seem to hold.

You do, of course, have to be aware of, and sensitive to, the cultural differences. For example, greeting someone with bon jour is important in French-speaking territories.

Walk into a McDonalds in America, go up to the counter, and say "Big Mac and fries, please" and -- because you said "please" -- everyone will think you are very polite. Do the same thing in France and -- because you did not start by saying hello -- everyone will think you are very rude. So, one important rule for Americans visiting France is, always start with bon jour.

But, be a little sensitive to such cultural differences, make an effort NOT to be a stereotypical "Ugly American," and I am sure that -- just like I always have -- you will find the French to be wonderfully friendly people, almost always willing to go out of their way to help.

Never having visited China, I will have to leave that to others to comment upon.

I am not sure if that was aimed at me personally but I am not an American anyway, so your stereotyping would be misdirected.

My jovial hint that sincere attempts at French by some English speakers are not universally welcomed is what I have sometimes witnessed ( very few cases where the protagonist was a US citizen), and having lived in something of the order 17 different countries covering more than 17 non English languages I am able to make a comparison of experience of where one is encouraged and where not.

Back to the OP. Don't be discouraged anyway. Who cares if a complete stranger thinks you're an idiot so long as you get that you need. You'll soon learn and then you won't be the idiot.

[GrowleyMonster]

I suggest learning how to conjugate the regular verbs in Spanish before going too far into vocabulary. Spanish is a very systematic language compared to English, so people here your words and think you mean precisely what you said, sometimes, instead of what you meant. Pay attention to gender indicative suffixes. "Medianoche" and "medio noche" would have two very different meanings!

I suggest you concentrate on one language, and your wife concentrate on the other.

Bars and restaurants can be great places to practice. There are lots of Spanish language TV and radio stations in the US. Be careful though... You could end up sounding like a newscaster or a soap opera actor to native speakers!

Disclaimer... My Spanish isn't all that great. Just saying. But its my second most fluent language.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by indiana_ct

You haven't spent much time in France, then [emoji3][emoji12], nor in Hong Kong where people get irritated if you try to speak Cantonese?

Au contraire. I spent a couple of weeks in Paris with zero previous experience speaking French. Every single person I asked for assistance or directions, including strangers on the street, smiled at my horrible attempts to speak French and did their best to help, all speaking as much English as they knew.

One hint, when asking for assistance, first thing say hello and how are you in French (takes about 10 seconds to learn this), perhaps apologize for your poor French and/or ask if they parle Anglais, then ask your questions.