Covid plan B for Canada staying closed

[Tessellate]

Originally Posted by Paul L

What weather window would you expect for heading north on tbe west coast of Vancouver Island in late May or June? Pretty unlikely you'd get anything that looks pleasant.

I agree with Paul. It's not an easy ~600 nm passage and it's highly unlikely you'll get a consistent gentle southerly for 5 days. There are multiple weather systems in that latitude band (48 N to 55 N) normally, and lots of land effects approaching the coast. You can go out further but then that's extending the trip and increasing chance of running into a big low.

Most boats that do it don't do non-stop transits, they use ports on Van Isle or north of there to rest or wait out weather. With Covid taking that off the table it's much more difficult/risky (although technically you could enter CA if you had a credible safety reason to do so).

In the spring I asked around if anyone had done it non-stop and wasn't able to find any detailed reports of doing so. I know of one boat that did it this summer and they did so by avoiding big wind and doing a good deal of motoring.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Tessellate

I agree with Paul. It's not an easy ~600 nm passage and it's highly unlikely you'll get a consistent gentle southerly for 5 days. There are multiple weather systems in that latitude band (48 N to 55 N) normally, and lots of land effects approaching the coast. You can go out further but then that's extending the trip and increasing chance of running into a big low.

Most boats that do it don't do non-stop transits, they use ports on Van Isle or north of there to rest or wait out weather. With Covid taking that off the table it's much more difficult/risky (although technically you could enter CA if you had a credible safety reason to do so).

In the spring I asked around if anyone had done it non-stop and wasn't able to find any detailed reports of doing so. I know of one boat that did it this summer and they did so by avoiding big wind and doing a good deal of motoring.

You can transit BC inside passage as long as you are traveling direct to Alaska, or vice versa. You can not stop to visit, but you can anchor for the night or weather while transiting.

[Tessellate]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Another issue often missed in these types of threads: as an American, you might want to ask yourself what other countries will allow you IN? It's not only Canada that is wary of your country's lack of attention to science.

Quite a few countries are open to US travelers actually, with sensible precautions (pre-travel testing, etc). Mexico, Ireland, UK (with quarantine), much of the Caribbean, just to name a few.

But yes, the list is ever changing. But please don't stereotype a country of 330 million with "your country's lack of attention to science." That has been one of the strangest things in all this, seeing how Canadians seem to think all Americans are the same stereotype they read about in whatever media source it is you get up there. Where I am most people are very cautious and infection rates have actually been very, very low per capita for months now.

I do read CBC.CA news actually - every week.

Anyway, travel isn't the primary driver of Covid, given it has reached everywhere in the world. Inadequate social distancing / mask wearing and inappropriate relaxation of local regulations are. (Quebec's Covid resurgence is a good example - caused by local standards easing too much and everyone going out and partying - gyms, bars, etc).

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Paul L

What weather window would you expect for heading north on tbe west coast of Vancouver Island in late May or June? Pretty unlikely you'd get anything that looks pleasant.

Beating from Washington State to Alaska outside Canadian waters is, I suppose, possible - but I wouldn't want to do it.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Paul L

You can transit BC inside passage as long as you are traveling direct to Alaska, or vice versa. You can not stop to visit, but you can anchor for the night or weather while transiting.

Exactly. And this is what others I know have done on recent passages to SE Alaska. A non-stop passage outside is doable with possible weather layovers at anchor in inlets or behind islands, but I don't know why you would make a point of avoiding using an inside route.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Tessellate

Quite a few countries are open to US travelers actually, with sensible precautions (pre-travel testing, etc). Mexico, Ireland, UK (with quarantine), much of the Caribbean, just to name a few.

But yes, the list is ever changing. But please don't stereotype a country of 330 million with "your country's lack of attention to science." That has been one of the strangest things in all this, seeing how Canadians seem to think all Americans are the same stereotype they read about in whatever media source it is you get up there. Where I am most people are very cautious and infection rates have actually been very, very low per capita for months now.

I do read CBC.CA news actually - every week.

Anyway, travel isn't the primary driver of Covid, given it has reached everywhere in the world. Inadequate social distancing / mask wearing and inappropriate relaxation of local regulations are. (Quebec's Covid resurgence is a good example - caused by local standards easing too much and everyone going out and partying - gyms, bars, etc).

I agree with everything you say - but US infection rates are STILL ten times ours and we just don't want to take the chance. Original spread WAS via travel. It didn't just erupt and appear spontaneously and simultaneously in every country in the world: it traveled there and here.

We're doing the very best we can to protect our citizens and the travel ban is one of the weapons in the arsenal. It certainly makes contact tracing easier. We know from experience that not everyone coming into the country self-isolates for the required two weeks - and we can't afford to lock them up to make sure they do.

No, not every American is an idiot - but Trump's approval ratings are still in the mid 40s.

[BugzyCan]

The problem is the land crossing. I wonder if you would be allowed to fly into Vancouver, quarantine for 2 weeks, and then charter a boat to tour BC? Kind of sucks you can't use your own boat, but I can't think of a way to get that into BC legally at the moment.
The problem with the idea above is, even if you quarantine for two weeks, you could still pick it up somewhere in Canada, and then as a tourist, transmit it around as you go. The stay at home rule sucks, but that is the safest for everyone.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

..................
1. There is a good chance that Canada will reopen later in the year, then a slow return can be part of the plan. ............................


2. Several of my friends have made the Puget Sound to SE Alaska passage this summer so it is completely doable - outside or inside. Canada just asks you to move through in a timely manner without going ashore.

1. WADR, where do you pull this stuff outta?


2. Of course, and if he chooses to do so, we'd certainly welcome him.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

The problem is the land crossing. I wonder if you would be allowed to fly into Vancouver, quarantine for 2 weeks, and then charter a boat to tour BC? Kind of sucks you can't use your own boat, but I can't think of a way to get that into BC legally at the moment.
The problem with the idea above is, even if you quarantine for two weeks, you could still pick it up somewhere in Canada, and then as a tourist, transmit it around as you go. The stay at home rule sucks, but that is the safest for everyone.

I don't think you can fly into BC from the US. You CAN fly from Canada into the US (those are US rules) but you CAN'T fly into Canada from the US (Canadian rules) without a REALLY good reason.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Paul L

You can transit BC inside passage as long as you are traveling direct to Alaska, or vice versa. You can not stop to visit, but you can anchor for the night or weather while transiting.

I'm not sure this is true. Early this past summer perhaps. Canada Border Services were pretty lenient. But then they and politicians started to hear stories of people abusing the privilege by playing tourist on the way through. There was a substantial public outcry and they tightened up the approvals significantly.

If you anchor or otherwise moor ANYWHERE in Canadian waters you are deemed to have entered the country. If you don't have the approval of Canada Border Services you are in deep, deep trouble.

We were in the Octopus Islands (where there is absolutely nothing ashore) when the Lindsey (an RCMP patrol boat) came in and checked the registry of EVERY boat in the anchorage. Had an American boat been in there they would have had a lot of explaining to do. I believe one boat was fined $75,000 for not following the rules.

Large commercial vessels and tugs with barges full of gear for the Alaska North Slope are allowed through perfunctorily because they've been doing it for years and have a demonstrated capacity in fuel, provisions, and crewing to do it non-stop. Very, very few recreational vessels could do that.

I've traveled the Inside Passage many of the 40 years I've been sailing. It's almost impossible to sail that route. You are in narrow channels surrounded by mountains almost the entire trip. The wind, regardless of its nominal direction, bounces off the hillsides and comes at you every which way. And I would not want to sail through the rapids - some of the fastest and fiercest in the world (look for the Yuculta's, Dent, Greene Point, Hole-in-the-wall, Beazly Channel, and Whirlpool Rapids on YouTube). There will be lots of motoring. I just don't see many people being able to make it without stopping enroute for fuel and provisions.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

.................................

Large commercial vessels and tugs with barges full of gear for the Alaska North Slope are allowed through perfunctorily because they've been doing it for years and have a demonstrated capacity in fuel, provisions, and crewing to do it non-stop. Very, very few recreational vessels could do that.

I've traveled the Inside Passage many of the 40 years I've been sailing. It's almost impossible to sail that route. You are in narrow channels surrounded by mountains almost the entire trip. The wind, regardless of its nominal direction, bounces off the hillsides and comes at you every which way. And I would not want to sail through the rapids - some of the fastest and fiercest in the world (look for the Yuculta's, Dent, Greene Point, Hole-in-the-wall, Beazly Channel, and Whirlpool Rapids on YouTube). There will be lots of motoring. I just don't see many people being able to make it without stopping enroute for fuel and provisions.

Thank you for a logical and sane approach to the issue.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I'm not sure this is true. Early this past summer perhaps. Canada Border Services were pretty lenient. But then they and politicians started to hear stories of people abusing the privilege by playing tourist on the way through. There was a substantial public outcry and they tightened up the approvals significantly.

....

It's true. You can Transit through BC. I had cruising friends do it a couple of weeks ago. Checked in at Prince Rupert and worked their way south. Stopping only to anchor at night and wait out weather.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Paul L

It's true. You can Transit through BC. I had cruising friends do it a couple of weeks ago. Checked in at Prince Rupert and worked their way south. Stopping only to anchor at night and wait out weather.

I'm surprised. I know of others who tried and were rejected.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I'm not sure this is true. Early this past summer perhaps. Canada Border Services were pretty lenient. But then they and politicians started to hear stories of people abusing the privilege by playing tourist on the way through. There was a substantial public outcry and they tightened up the approvals significantly.

If you anchor or otherwise moor ANYWHERE in Canadian waters you are deemed to have entered the country. If you don't have the approval of Canada Border Services you are in deep, deep trouble.

We were in the Octopus Islands (where there is absolutely nothing ashore) when the Lindsey (an RCMP patrol boat) came in and checked the registry of EVERY boat in the anchorage. Had an American boat been in there they would have had a lot of explaining to do. I believe one boat was fined $75,000 for not following the rules.

Large commercial vessels and tugs with barges full of gear for the Alaska North Slope are allowed through perfunctorily because they've been doing it for years and have a demonstrated capacity in fuel, provisions, and crewing to do it non-stop. Very, very few recreational vessels could do that.

I've traveled the Inside Passage many of the 40 years I've been sailing. It's almost impossible to sail that route. You are in narrow channels surrounded by mountains almost the entire trip. The wind, regardless of its nominal direction, bounces off the hillsides and comes at you every which way. And I would not want to sail through the rapids - some of the fastest and fiercest in the world (look for the Yuculta's, Dent, Greene Point, Hole-in-the-wall, Beazly Channel, and Whirlpool Rapids on YouTube). There will be lots of motoring. I just don't see many people being able to make it without stopping enroute for fuel and provisions.

The Inside Passage is closed for discretionary travel and is legally considered as internal waters, so the UNCLOS treaty’s right of innocent passage (which Canada ratified in 2003) does not apply for boat transits between Washington and Alaska. And this is a moot point for now, while the Covid-19 restrictions apply. https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/services...diens-eng.html

But I do need to point out that it isn’t hard for a pleasure boat to make a non-stop passage (except for tides and weather). And the usual border rules do allow for a transit entry through Canadian waters that prohibits stops. https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-v...tions-eng.html

If you are doing a non-stop transit and you do need to stop (anchor) for tides and/or weather then contact the CBSA right away. It’s not illegal to stop, but illegal to not report. https://www.canada.ca/en/border-serv...s-1116939.html

Before entering Canadian waters call the CBSA to let them know that you’re going to make a non-stop transit to Alaska via the Inside Passage. Tell them (if they ask) how you’ve prepared to do the passage non-stop. Keep your AIS on at all times. Store your dinghy away if possible and remove all fenders and mooring lines from your decks.

Fuel: you probably know or can calculate how far (or long) your boat motors on (a) full tank(s). Double the distance you expect the passage between endpoints to take and count on 2/3 of motoring speed to allow for tidal gate waits. If your internal tank(s) is(are) not big enough, then add the required number of jerry cans.

Provisioning for a week or two is easy - even a fridge or just the bilge will take care of fresh food for a couple of weeks. Double it for emergencies and anything larger than a kayak should be easily manage that.

[osprey877]

I spent all of August cruising Desolation Sound, the Broughton's, Port McNeil etc. Didn't see a single American flagged boat. Border patrol and RCMP were patrolling popular anchorages such as Newcastle Island, Ganges etc. The central coast between Prince Rupert and Port McNeil is deserted, with most marina's, resorts etc. either closed or offering limited service only. Even Shearwater is offering fuel and groceries only, no moorage, restaurant etc. I think it was much easier in the spring, but I don't think it is practicable now for an American yacht to make the trip north, although of course this may all change again by next spring.
I did talk to a dutch flagged Catamaran that had sailed from Hawaii to Alaska in the Spring and then south from Alaska to Vancouver. They had hauled out in Vancouver and were heading to Victoria, then on to San Francisco, so it can be done.
There is a lot of water to be explored in the PNW between Olympia and the Canadian border and I would have thought it would make sense for the OP to wait out the border closures before heading off to Chile or Sweden. Maybe make a trip in the spring to Astoria and Portland if they get bored.