Sailing is for Rich People only

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by David Ess

I fully agree with you that "most people dont have the gumption to go sailing at all". But I wasnt talking about people who DONT go sailing , but about those that DO. In this latter group, most prefer to bathe in hot, freh water instead of seawater. But I wouldnt mind seeing a poll on the point. If most in this forum prefer cold seawater, Ill admit I was wrong.

You may be onto something. My 10 year-old son loves going sailing out to the islands on our little boat, but every time we come back in from a trip his ideal dream boat becomes larger. Currently it is somewhere around a hundred feet, power boat, and has a helicopter on it. Where did I go wrong?
My 15 year old daughter, on the other hand, has forbidden me to sell the boat!
hmmmmm

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by Don C L

You may be onto something. My 10 year-old son loves going sailing out to the islands on our little boat, but every time we come back in from a trip his ideal dream boat becomes larger. Currently it is somewhere around a hundred feet, power boat, and has a helicopter on it. Where did I go wrong?
My 15 year old daughter, on the other hand, has forbidden me to sell the boat!
hmmmmm

YOU didnt go wrong, and when he's old he can buy one if hes rich enough, many people do. BTW, do any of the 3 of you prefer bathing in cold seawater, to hot fresh water? (This is not a scientific survey, but since nobody wants to conduct a better one, ill just ask everybody in this thread).

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by David Ess

YOU didnt go wrong, and when he's old he can buy one if hes rich enough, many people do. BTW, do any of the 3 of you prefer bathing in cold seawater, to hot fresh water? (This is not a scientific survey, but since nobody wants to conduct a better one, ill just ask everybody in this thread).

Maybe you should ask how many people actually own a boat? And your answer would be........

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by David Ess

YOU didnt go wrong, and when he's old he can buy one if hes rich enough, many people do. BTW, do any of the 3 of you prefer bathing in cold seawater, to hot fresh water? (This is not a scientific survey, but since nobody wants to conduct a better one, ill just ask everybody in this thread).

Really what you should ask is what people enjoy about their sailing, cruising or journeying experiences. My kids love snorkeling in the cold water not because they love cold water, they don't, but they love the stuff they see. It's worth it. They don't get a hot shower but they do get a warm, brief, one, out in the cockpit, but they are out at the islands, it's worth it. There's no tv, but there are the stars and fish at night, and that makes it worth it. It's more than worth it, it is preferable. Perhaps you are thinking of folks for whom this stuff is not worth it because they don't appreciate the experiences out there enough? They probably aren't out there, and probably wouldn't care to be even if hot showers were offered. For many the quality of the experience does not equal the quality of the comfort as others might measure comfort. As a river guide I never got a hot shower and I always slept on the ground. I miss that!

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Really what you should ask is what people enjoy about their sailing, cruising or journeying experiences. My kids love snorkeling in the cold water not because they love cold water, they don't, but they love the stuff they see. It's worth it. They don't get a hot shower but they do get a warm, brief, one, out in the cockpit, but they are out at the islands, it's worth it. There's no tv, but there are the stars and fish at night, and that makes it worth it. It's more than worth it, it is preferable. Perhaps you are thinking of folks for whom this stuff is not worth it because they don't appreciate the experiences out there enough? They probably aren't out there, and probably wouldn't care to be even if hot showers were offered. For many the quality of the experience does not equal the quality of the comfort as others might measure comfort. As a river guide I never got a hot shower and I always slept on the ground. I miss that!

I ask about this important topic because it was a big part of the thread. A few people challenged my bold statement, so I'm just trying to verify its truth conditions. I even admitted I would readily concede thecpoint if I'm wrong. But in threads aboutt snorkeling and such, I'm pleased to talk about those topics.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by David Ess

I ask about this important topic because it was a big part of the thread. A few people challenged my bold statement, so I'm just trying to verify its truth conditions. I even admitted I would readily concede thecpoint if I'm wrong. But in threads aboutt snorkeling and such, I'm pleased to talk about those topics.

Well, it relates back to the original post in the sense that the question is, what are you sailing or cruising or buying a boat for? I suspect (since I am not in a club) that some in a club may not be buying a boat for cruising, or even much sailing. And their enjoyment of the experience revolves around the good feeling they get in owning a nice boat, with other like-minded people, where other people do the work and most everything on the boat is new, nearly new or looks new. If that kind of experience is at the center of your enjoyment, you probably won't find much to compliment in a lesser boat and/or a roughin'-it kind of lifestyle. To say the least I suspect that most folks here would not share that view in the value of boat ownership and cruising as a lifestyle.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by dreadpiratk

Tell you what, about 6 years ago we bought our first ‘big boat’- a 1979 Mariner 28, a life long dream for me. Paid a whopping 5k for it, and not much of a bargain at that. I was so proud of that boat!

The broker launched it for us at a rather tony marina. The first time I saw it sitting there among all the 6 figure boats with their shiny white hulls and towering masts I nearly cried I was so embarrassed.

But you know, that year on a sunny Father’s Day all 5 of my kids came with us as together we sailed away from that marina with its shiny dock queens, every one of which were sitting empty and unused. I never wasted another minute being jealous of others’ boats after that.

I love this story!

Originally Posted by dreadpiratk

Time and family are greater wealth than any number in a bank account.

You're darn tootin', DreadPirate!
LittleWing77

[drb1025]

If you want an expensive hobby, get a trawler. A sailboat is cheap by comparison.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by drb1025

If you want an expensive hobby, get a trawler. A sailboat is cheap by comparison.

Not if you compare like to like

Yes a $5k yacht is cheaper than our boat but we have more comfort in our storage lockers than that $5k boat has to offer.

Going the other way, get a sailing boat with the same level of comfort as ours and consistent 8 knot cruise speeds in any direction and be prepared to pay many many multiples more for it.
The trawler is positively cheap in comparison.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by David Ess

I fully agree with you that "most people dont have the gumption to go sailing at all". But I wasnt talking about people who DONT go sailing , but about those that DO. In this latter group, most prefer to bathe in hot, freh water instead of seawater. But I wouldnt mind seeing a poll on the point. If most in this forum prefer cold seawater, Ill admit I was wrong.

David, you really seem to be hung up on this bathing bit, but you seem to have missed my point: people who really want to go cruising will find a way to do it, and if their circumstances don't permit hot showers on board, they go anyway.
And mostly they don't whine about it, but enjoy what they have.

How do I know that? Well, Ann and I cruised full time on a boat with no shower at all... for 17 years and over 86,000 miles. Spent over 95% of that time not in marinas at all. Our ablutions relied upon a plastic bag sun shower... sometimes warm, sometimes too damn hot, sometimes icy, sometimes following a swim in the salty. The first couple of years of that were with no refrigeration, small tanks, no solar, a home brew wind/trolling generator, no GPS, an intermittent Sat Nav, paper charts and a sextant for when the Sat Nav wasn't working.

We had a very good time, did not feel deprived, and wouldn't have given it up for anything. And BTW, my Ann ain't an "admiral"... she's a fully qualified sailor/navigator/watchkeeper that any skipper would welcome aboard (and some have tried). You seem to think that cruising women are the nautical equivalent of the "pit popsies" one sees at sport car races. They are not.

It is true that we now sail on a larger and more commodious vessel, and we like the added benefits it provides. Thing is, we can afford it now, and could not 34 years ago when we set out... but set out we did. Had our circumstances not improved we would still be in the first Insatiable, and would still be enjoying cruising despite both being octogenarians and the boat over 50 years of age itself (she's still cruising in another skipper's hands).

You have refused to tell us about your cruising experience. This, coupled with your dubious opinions about cruising sailors leads me to believe that you have little such experience... and with your grand expectations of the life, perhaps this will continue to be true.

Meanwhile, I'm just about to go light the water heater so we can have a shower. It's too cold here for me to swim...

Jim

[thomm225]

This young lady has sailed her 27' boat down from Maine and is now in the Pacific.

She is young (27 years old) so that helps and has experience cruising on her parents boat. She appears to also be physically strong.

She has an oven, small diesel she rarely uses, wind vane autopilot and electric autopilot but no shower.

She was a backpacker also so she says she has tons of room on her small boat.

Btw her boat is over 10' wide whereas the beam on mine is 8'

In this video, she is dealing with a summer squall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bkemknq07Y

and a second after she did a 41 days sail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkTYZQZHg30

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This young lady has sailed her 27' boat down from Maine and is now in the Pacific.

She is young (27 years old) so that helps and has experience cruising on her parents boat. She appears to also be physically strong.

She has an oven, small diesel she rarely uses, wind vane autopilot and electric autopilot but no shower.

I'm sure that when she is old and slumped in a wheelchair with a colostomy bag clipped to the side, her most vivid memory will be not having a hot shower.

[Hudson Force]

I always felt a need to put on my wet suit to enter the summer sea water in Maine; however, I was in the water daily in the Bahamas and the Florida keys. Crystal clear warm seawater can be refreshing on those hot days in lower latitudes. We're "pansies",- staying out of the cold summer seawater water, but bathing with warm seawater in the winter.

As with so many topics, there a variables that many don't consider.

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This young lady has sailed her 27' boat down from Maine and is now in the Pacific.

She is young (27 years old) so that helps and has experience cruising on her parents boat. She appears to also be physically strong.

She has an oven, small diesel she rarely uses, wind vane autopilot and electric autopilot but no shower.

She was a backpacker also so she says she has tons of room on her small boat.

Btw her boat is over 10' wide whereas the beam on mine is 8'

In this video, she is dealing with a summer squall.

and a second after she did a 41 days sail

You must have missed all the messages where I accounted for outliers. When I said 'most', it didnt include her , or the few other such outliers.

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

David, you really seem to be hung up on this bathing bit, but you seem to have missed my point: people who really want to go cruising will find a way to do it, and if their circumstances don't permit hot showers on board, they go anyway.
And mostly they don't whine about it, but enjoy what they have.

How do I know that? Well, Ann and I cruised full time on a boat with no shower at all... for 17 years and over 86,000 miles. Spent over 95% of that time not in marinas at all. Our ablutions relied upon a plastic bag sun shower... sometimes warm, sometimes too damn hot, sometimes icy, sometimes following a swim in the salty. The first couple of years of that were with no refrigeration, small tanks, no solar, a home brew wind/trolling generator, no GPS, an intermittent Sat Nav, paper charts and a sextant for when the Sat Nav wasn't working.

We had a very good time, did not feel deprived, and wouldn't have given it up for anything. And BTW, my Ann ain't an "admiral"... she's a fully qualified sailor/navigator/watchkeeper that any skipper would welcome aboard (and some have tried). You seem to think that cruising women are the nautical equivalent of the "pit popsies" one sees at sport car races. They are not.

It is true that we now sail on a larger and more commodious vessel, and we like the added benefits it provides. Thing is, we can afford it now, and could not 34 years ago when we set out... but set out we did. Had our circumstances not improved we would still be in the first Insatiable, and would still be enjoying cruising despite both being octogenarians and the boat over 50 years of age itself (she's still cruising in another skipper's hands).

You have refused to tell us about your cruising experience. This, coupled with your dubious opinions about cruising sailors leads me to believe that you have little such experience... and with your grand expectations of the life, perhaps this will continue to be true.

Meanwhile, I'm just about to go light the water heater so we can have a shower. It's too cold here for me to swim...

Jim

You just corroborated what I said...that most who can afford it get boats with fresh water showers. And I didnt miss anything but already accounted for the few, mostly young people who put up with batheing in cold seawater
And it wasnt an opinion of mine, rather its a fact. And you just added evidence.