Four crew rescued from disabled sailboat off coast of Nova Scotia

[Arthurwg]

Great thread. Very informative and interesting.

Wow! I just had a look at those For Sale pictures. What a boat. And not bad for $300,000.

I seem to remember furling headsails on many round-the-world racing boats that passed around the capes with few problems.

[boatman61]

Did the CF friend of the delivery skipper ever get back with more detailed info on the failures that led up to the Mayday..???

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "2 storm jibs ( I have 3 - 150/100/50 sq ft) hanked on one above the other and marlin hitched to secure them...... one most likely to be required first is uppermost.... halyard attached to peak and tensioned against a bit of small stuff.... no risk of runaway halyard..."

How very old-fashioned ;-)!! And cheap. And simple. And effective :-)!

TP

[Markhunter1097]

Seems a lot of discussion here is about the furling headsail. Any sail that furled should also have SailkotePlus applied to it. Reason is that the size of the furl is up to 30 % smaller/tighter. This should prevent the partial unfurl half way up the rig, and will reduce windage, could have been useful in this case. Read up on it yourself at the McLube website.

[kristjan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Did the CF friend of the delivery skipper ever get back with more detailed info on the failures that led up to the Mayday..???

He asked me to keep info private until insurance is all done and settled. Too much speculation and pundits otherwise. Basically, conditions overwhelmed the boat, and by checking their route against the weather forecast one could see they had been in up to 70kn in the week prior to rescue.
With only 250 miles until land, they didn’t jump from the horse right at the finish line for no good reason.

[kristjan]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Well,

I find it amusing people criticizing the comments of Boatman--an admittedly experienced sailor with enough offshore miles under his belt to deserve respect and none, of which(his comments), were unreasonable or off the mark. Some on this Forum with a lot less serious sailing experience appear to picture themselves as consummate seamen that would have little or few problems floating a crippled/damaged/sinking boat to its final destination in 7-meter seas and 40-degree temps with the fanfare of cheering ,amorphous crowds waving banners at the dock in the gale force winds. The reality, however, is somewhat different. For those of us who have sailed the Northern climes and are familiar with cold weather sailing, we know that you have a limited window for the safety of your boat and your crew and that a minute too late for rescue would be a minute too late for your life. And, the unpredicted gales that can develop within hours are a factor that must be considered whenever you're in these waters as witnessed this September when we just missed a 40-60 knot gale in the Gulf of St. Lawrence that developed quickly and sank/destroyed a local sailboat in the boulder-strewn shallows up to one mile offshore--fortunately with no loss of life due to the superb, professional efforts of the Canadian Coast Guard. I think, as others have noted, that we need to wait for the complete information before criticizing the efforts of the captain and to remember that NO boat is worth your life. Good luck and safe sailing . . . Rognvald

Best comment.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by kristjan

He asked me to keep info private until insurance is all done and settled. Too much speculation and pundits otherwise. Basically, conditions overwhelmed the boat, and by checking their route against the weather forecast one could see they had been in up to 70kn in the week prior to rescue.
With only 250 miles until land, they didn’t jump from the horse right at the finish line for no good reason.

Without some definitive answer (and I don't accept the "I can't say until the insurance is settled" dodge) the only evidence we have is what we see. If the steering is broken, in what way?

I have my own views and that is: the conditions overwhelmed the crew, not the boat.

[u4ea32]

Big and confused seas! Big seas in a single wave train are not a problem. Big seas that are crossing, which was clearly the case here, are a big problem. Even if there are zero problems with the boat, the crew will have serious difficulty. Seasickness is common in such conditions, even with people who "never get seasick." Seasickness diminishes all abilities, physical and mental, including focus, teamwork, and problem solving.

Very strong breeze, and cold weather, also contribute to serious difficulties.

If the steering failed twice, perhaps that was the primary system the first time, and the emergency system the second time. It sounds like they had no ability to steer.

For certain, a hull shaped like that will be absolutely awful without steerage in these conditions.

Losing the ability to control power without steering in a North Atlantic winter storm with 50knots and huge confused seas -- there is no speculation in that statement -- is absolutely a very difficult situation.

The likelihood of injuries to the crew and cascading problems with the boat are very high.

So I am not surprised by the result.

Furling is part of the problem, perhaps. But as others have stated, there are failure modes for hanked sails too.

I personally don't see the value in furling headsails that are on deck: Hoisting a ranked sail is about the same effort as furling (furling is much less effort than hoisting a bolt rope in a groove, but hanks are easy); Windage of furled sails is a big problem in almost any breeze, even at anchor; Being able to certainly get rid of sail area is important to safety, and its very easy to drop headsails on deck by just heading up just past head to wind, especially short LP sails as one would be using in heavy air.

Furlers are very useful for downwind sails on sprits. Much, much better than snuffer socks.

Simple slab reefing (NOT using a continuous reefing line for tack and clew) is hard to beat.

[kristjan]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Without some definitive answer (and I don't accept the "I can't say until the insurance is settled" dodge) the only evidence we have is what we see. If the steering is broken, in what way?



I have my own views and that is: the conditions overwhelmed the crew, not the boat.

Aren’t you just “Mr. How to win friends and influence people”

[bvimatelot]

Originally Posted by kristjan

Aren’t you just “Mr. How to win friends and influence people”

Kristjan - I'm so glad you saw and responded to that assinine post before I did!
My language would probably have been stronger and might have got me banned for intemperance... Tony

[Brob2]

I'm curious as to how many members consider it acceptable for this model of boat to be out where it was at the time of year it was, with a fully competent and experienced crew, proper lifelines and jack-lines, triple slab reefing, and foresails/storm-sails with hanks. I think it's reckless, but I am sure many here think otherwise. Thoughts on this?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Brob2

I'm curious as to how many members consider it acceptable for this model of boat to be out where it was at the time of year it was, with a fully competent and experienced crew, proper lifelines and jack-lines, triple slab reefing, and foresails/storm-sails with hanks. I think it's reckless, but I am sure many here think otherwise. Thoughts on this?

well some would say I was nuts to sail a 24 ft islander to Hawaii and back here but I would not prefer to be out there but if caught out just do the best you can .

[dainisk]

The yacht has just been spotted near the Azores. I am on a small cruise ship (Le Boreal) and we came across the yacht adrift about 40mi west of the Azores. The ship stopped to check it out. No one aboard, but the yacht was in pretty good shape (minus a mast). It was close enough to the Azores and based on our approach, it would have eventually run aground at Faial or Pico Islands. We left the yacht, but I believe the local authorities were advised.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by bvimatelot

Kristjan - I'm so glad you saw and responded to that assinine post before I did!
My language would probably have been stronger and might have got me banned for intemperance... Tony

Now we find, four months later, that the boat was not in sinking condition.

We have also not heard anyone make a definitive statement about what actually happened to the steering. I wonder if the "insurance" reasons are still the excuse for nobody from the yacht describing exactly what happened to the steering. Perhaps they have but the information has not reached the cruising forum readers or did I miss that? Please inform us.

If the vessel has reached the Azores it should be possible to examine it by someone local.

Lacking some definitive statement of the yacht's failures we can only go by what we see: A floating vessel with a standing mast and no visible sign of damage.

So I'll repeat my assertion: My view is that the conditions overwhelmed the crew, not the vessel.

I'll elaborate. If the boat is intact, the mast, the steering, why get off other than that the conditions were just too intolerable?

If that is not the case, then pray tell, what damage was present, and keep in mind that the truth may soon be revealed?

Tony, You got some problem with that conclusion?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Brob2

I'm curious as to how many members consider it acceptable for this model of boat to be out where it was at the time of year it was, with a fully competent and experienced crew, proper lifelines and jack-lines, triple slab reefing, and foresails/storm-sails with hanks. I think it's reckless, but I am sure many here think otherwise. Thoughts on this?

I think that it was as acceptable for this model to be out there as any other 50+ foot, well found vessel. I believe there is nothing about this model which disqualifies it from ocean passages more or less than any other vessel.

By the way, was there some information about the vessel which indicated they had hank-on sails?

On the other hand I think it is a questionable decision to cross the north Atlantic at this time of year. I think the conditions they encountered bear out that opinion.

I don't call it reckless, but I think they ran into the conditions which they should have expected.