Four crew rescued from disabled sailboat off coast of Nova Scotia

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Over several months of high winds that flogging could have resulted in metal fatigue somewhere in the rig.

Just speculation, but conceivable.

Does not need months. In heavy winds a flogging sail can bring the mast down in minutes.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by Paul L

And would you make the same judgement if they saved the boat and just lost one or two crew?

You miss the point here. Rescue operations are risky, both for the casualties and the rescuers. The boat was clearly not in immediate danger.

My personal opinion, and I am old-fashioned, is you only call Mayday until all other options are exhausted.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by MartinR

You miss the point here. Rescue operations are risky, both for the casualties and the rescuers. The boat was clearly not in immediate danger.

My personal opinion, and I am old-fashioned, is you only call Mayday until all other options are exhausted.

When you are only responsible for yourself thats fine .
However as soon as you place anyone below you that you are responsible for the safety and life of it changea your thinking real quick.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by newhaul

When you are only responsible for yourself thats fine .
However as soon as you place anyone below you that you are responsible for the safety and life of it changea your thinking real quick.

No, it does not. I have sailed professionally on sailing ships with passengers for many years. I would never sail across the Atlantic in winter if I had responsibility for crew or passengers. especially not with this type of boat. Already that was a bad decision.

In my opinion, the risk of staying with the boat was low. There was no water ingress, no fire. Bad weather in itself is not a reason to abandon, even if combined with equipment failure, as this is expected during this time of year. Bad weather breaks things. This is completely normal. Either you can cope with it, or you should not be there.

[bcboomer]

It's all too easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. Reading the interview it appears the captain re-reconfigured the steering when it broke the first time and the second time there wasn't enough available to jury rig.
Maybe he could have rigged something else eventually, but maybe conditions would worsen first and they would be rolled.
No-one who wasn't there should second guess him.

[Orion Jim]

Originally Posted by Recy

Aftermath.

https://www.macleans.ca/plucked-from..._bILOeNfaZFd30

Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Some of the photos contained in the article show the true wave size. Small boat vs the North Atlantic in winter...you just have to respect the build quality of Hanse.

[CFS Klopas]

The problem with stepping up into the raft when you're offshore is that help is 6-48 hours away. You have to have effective communications when you make the decision which probably means an intact craft with the power operating. If there is enough damage that there is truly no hope, the chance of making a successful distress call and surviving long enough for a rescue isn't good.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by CFS Klopas

The problem with stepping up into the raft when you're offshore is that help is 6-48 hours away. You have to have effective communications when you make the decision which probably means an intact craft with the power operating. If there is enough damage that there is truly no hope, the chance of making a successful distress call and surviving long enough for a rescue isn't good.

Step one is to inform the CG that you have troubles, without issuing a Mayday. If the craft is intact, there is no risk of life, and the issue of a Mayday call is not OK. If you sail the North Atlantic at this time of the year, the boat should have survival suits onboard, and also an EPIRB. If yes, abandoning to a life raft is a viable option. If not, you should not be out there.

If I read the article correctly, the only defect item was the autopilot, the steering was fixed. And the boat was low on fuel. But they had sails, and there was plenty of wind. There is probably more to this than meets the eye, but as I read it the whole story is very strange.

From choosing to take the Northern route at this season, opposed to the safer and longer via the trade winds. The strange way of handling the weather by motoring instead of sailing. The over reliance on autopilot. The Mayday call in spite of a basically undamaged boat. I am not sure I agree with the notion of stepping up into the life raft under all circumstances, but as a basic rule I agree.

The rescue operation in itself is dangerous, in this case was dangerous, in all likelihood far more dangerous than staying on the boat. Lucky everybody survived, even the crew member that was catapulted into the water.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CFS Klopas

The problem with stepping up into the raft when you're offshore is that help is 6-48 hours away. You have to have effective communications when you make the decision which probably means an intact craft with the power operating. If there is enough damage that there is truly no hope, the chance of making a successful distress call and surviving long enough for a rescue isn't good.

by correct procedure they would first issue a pan pan to get emergency personnel on line and ready should it be needed . Also gets support mobilized like emergency pumps loaded on choppers heading to you .

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by MartinR

Does not need months. In heavy winds a flogging sail can bring the mast down in minutes.

I was in a storm on Friday night and Saturday morning in Bass Straight, I dropped my Genoa and tied it down,
If I had left it up it would have destroyed my mast,
It was bashing the hell out of my mast,
The mast was also getting a pounding with out any sails up,

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by MartinR

If I read the article correctly, the only defect item was the autopilot, the steering was fixed. And the boat was low on fuel. But they had sails, and there was plenty of wind. There is probably more to this than meets the eye, but as I read it the whole story is very strange.

From choosing to take the Northern route at this season, opposed to the safer and longer via the trade winds. The strange way of handling the weather by motoring instead of sailing. The over reliance on autopilot. The Mayday call in spite of a basically undamaged boat. I am not sure I agree with the notion of stepping up into the life raft under all circumstances, but as a basic rule I agree.

The rescue operation in itself is dangerous, in this case was dangerous, in all likelihood far more dangerous than staying on the boat. Lucky everybody survived, even the crew member that was catapulted into the water.

I agree with your comments about stepping up although in this case there was a god reason for doing it. You are correct that the steering was fixed after the first breakage. However later it broke again and the were unable to repair the further damage.

They did not choose the northern route. They were going along a southern route when a storm forecast suggested they move a little north to avoid the storm. It seems the forecast was incorrect and based upon the incorrect forecast they ended up in the storm. They later received another incorrect forecast which pushed them further north.

The article then mentioned some additional issues with the yacht causing them to be at serious risk. The yacht did eventually lose its mast and although it wasn't at the time of the rescue, there was some sort of damage that was serious cause for concern.

Finally, the coast guard wanted them to get into the life raft so they could be pulled from the raft and not from the boat. When the life raft was launched it turned over was wasn't able to be righted. The person tossed from the boat was the rescue swimmer.

[B23iL23]

Spot on Martin.



I know it's always easier in hindsight to say we would have done this or done that differently but it does appear that decisions where taken here that didn't have to be. The boat was seaworthy as it was found months later still afloat and riding high (so not much water taken onboard). I was also thought that the last place you want to be is in a liferaft or in the ocean so only step off your boat when you have to step up to something else ( and I've had to do that once).



I also question the routing - even if a storm came in and pushed them North, they would already have add to be much further North than I would have preferred at that time of year.



Even if they were too tired and exhausted then why not lash the helm, tie everything down, close the hatch and wait it out, instead of putting other lives at risk. Again I looked at the video of the rescue and those conditions don't look that bad - to leave a boat that was intact, seaworthy, good steering, engine and so on just seems like a little hasty to me.

Originally Posted by MartinR

Step one is to inform the CG that you have troubles, without issuing a Mayday. If the craft is intact, there is no risk of life, and the issue of a Mayday call is not OK. If you sail the North Atlantic at this time of the year, the boat should have survival suits onboard, and also an EPIRB. If yes, abandoning to a life raft is a viable option. If not, you should not be out there.

If I read the article correctly, the only defect item was the autopilot, the steering was fixed. And the boat was low on fuel. But they had sails, and there was plenty of wind. There is probably more to this than meets the eye, but as I read it the whole story is very strange.

From choosing to take the Northern route at this season, opposed to the safer and longer via the trade winds. The strange way of handling the weather by motoring instead of sailing. The over reliance on autopilot. The Mayday call in spite of a basically undamaged boat. I am not sure I agree with the notion of stepping up into the life raft under all circumstances, but as a basic rule I agree.

The rescue operation in itself is dangerous, in this case was dangerous, in all likelihood far more dangerous than staying on the boat. Lucky everybody survived, even the crew member that was catapulted into the water.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Spot on Martin.



I know it's always easier in hindsight to say we would have done this or done that differently but it does appear that decisions where taken here that didn't have to be. The boat was seaworthy as it was found months later still afloat and riding high (so not much water taken onboard). I was also thought that the last place you want to be is in a liferaft or in the ocean so only step off your boat when you have to step up to something else ( and I've had to do that once).



I also question the routing - even if a storm came in and pushed them North, they would already have add to be much further North than I would have preferred at that time of year.



Even if they were too tired and exhausted then why not lash the helm, tie everything down, close the hatch and wait it out, instead of putting other lives at risk. Again I looked at the video of the rescue and those conditions don't look that bad - to leave a boat that was intact, seaworthy, good steering, engine and so on just seems like a little hasty to me.

at the point they stepped off the vessel the jib sail was blown out and the steering had failed for the second time . And with how bad the cross seas were there would likely have been at least one crew incapacitated due to sea sickness . ( that alone can kill you)
unless you were there you don't know just how bad it may have been . We are all Monday morning quarterbacking on this one. Thankfully there was no loss of life and in the end that's all that matters.

[B23iL23]

Thanks newhaul.

Didn't know the steering had failed the second time. It's always easy to critique from the comfort of a warm house way after the fact and decisions taken by the skipper may well have been the correct ones at the time.



Always a difficult call.

Originally Posted by newhaul

at the point they stepped off the vessel the jib sail was blown out and the steering had failed for the second time . And with how bad the cross seas were there would likely have been at least one crew incapacitated due to sea sickness . ( that alone can kill you)
unless you were there you don't know just how bad it may have been . We are all Monday morning quarterbacking on this one. Thankfully there was no loss of life and in the end that's all that matters.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by newhaul

at the point they stepped off the vessel the jib sail was blown out and the steering had failed for the second time . And with how bad the cross seas were there would likely have been at least one crew incapacitated due to sea sickness . ( that alone can kill you)
unless you were there you don't know just how bad it may have been . We are all Monday morning quarterbacking on this one. Thankfully there was no loss of life and in the end that's all that matters.

These boats are built according to CE standards and have en emergency tiller, so the boat could be steered. And seasickness does not kill you, at least not quickly. A little sail would have stabilised the boat. Going by motor under these conditions is extremely hard on the crew. You can always heave to, calm things down and think things over.

Blown out sails can be repaired, and I am sure there must have been a storm jib onboard. If not, they had definitely no business going where they were going.

I still do not buy this. Minor issues, at least for me these are minor issues - been there, done that - do not justify a Mayday call, in my opinion.